Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
Thanks for the reply. So only red and white are the colours they use for the modified. I wonder if they would allow a practice run before doing the actual test. I'm sure I could pass the modified or the signal, I just want to have another option. I have passed other colour blind tests, but fail miserably with the Ishihara and obviously did not do well with the Farnsworth - the lights are just so small. My vision has been sharpened with l@ser surgery, so I may have better success at focusing and identifying the lights. During the farnsworth I did take, I got an average of three errors on the second and third runs (series of nine lights), with the third run having zero errors. Does that constitute a fail for a farnsworth I wonder.
It seems in the following; "CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY REGULATIONS 1998 - REG 67.150", a person meets medical standard 1 (on the farnsworth) if they:
...readily identify aviation coloured lights displayed by means of a Farnsworth colour-perception lantern, making:
(i) no errors on 1 run of 9 pairs of lights; or
(ii) no more than 2 errors on a sequence of 2 runs of 9 pairs of lights
I was wondering what people's opinion would be on whether CASA should deem me 'colour safe' when I had the following outcome with my farnsworth test:
5 errors out of 9 with the first run, 3 errors out of 9 with the second run, and 0 errors out of 9 with the third run.
The way I interpret this is that I satisfy (i) with no errors on 1 run of 9 pair of lights. If I submitted a "Reconsideration of decision on medical certification", what chance would I have of reversing their decision on my colour perception?
Interstingly, despite the UK CAA claims that their CAD Test would be the new standard for all Colour Vision testing under EASA, this is the Acceptable Means of Compliance straight off the EASA website. This is EU LAW!!
No mention of the CAD Test as an acceptable means of passing CVD tests.
I have been wondering for a long while (ever since I found I was mildly colourblind) whether or not I can still become a pilot. I am 18 at the moment, I start my physics masters degree this year. I have got good school results, and I am fit/healthy, etc... but a couple of years ago I found I was mildly colourblind (I failed some of the ishihara plates) but it is pretty mild. There is probably a lot of this about (my brother has it too), but I wonder - is it worth trying the lantern test or should I just forget it? Is there anything online that can assess my colour vision better than the crude knowledge I have now? I recently took this test: color blind test ( free and complete ) by jean jouannic optician and got 29/32, if that means anything.
You probably get this a lot, but it's a big decision for me!
Hi, I don't post that often, but to answer your questions.
Firstly do not rely on online colour vision tests as the representation on your monitor is not accurate. There are a couple of professionaly available programmes and what we have to do to calibrate them is lengthy. One of the other problems that the test you linked to is that it relies on colour naming - a not very reliable procedure, except in forced choice tests eg lantern tests where you only have a choice of primary colours as opposed to hues.
Regarding Ishihara (and other pseudoisochromatic tests) they should be done using the correct illumination ie daylight or standard illuminant C. But be aware, and I have mentioned this earlier in the thread, the results with Ishihara can vary from edition to edition and also printer.This is due to ink variations as Ishihara never actually specified them using say the Maunsell system. More reliable are the likes of the HRR test and the City University Test as these use specific Maunsell colour chips.
The note about illumination applies to the colour matching tests like the Farnsworth-Maunsell 100 Hue test or the Farnsworth D15.
As to the prevalence about 10% of all males have some form of colour deficiency and it is X-chromosome linked which explains your brother.
Certainly try a lantern test, you may pass it because of the reasons above, Ishihara can be give false positives as well as shown up the mildly colour anomalous.
Thanks for your reply, that's informative. Yes, I have found that I can sometimes see or not see different Ishihara plates under different conditions - they only really seem to be able to tell you whether or not you have colourblindness, rather than how bad it is. I am one of the people who never knew they actually had a problem until they took the test, and I like the idea of doing a lantern test, but you have to go to Gatwick, right?
Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people similar to me come on here and ask the same questions so I would like to thank you again
I suspect a great percentage of those with restricted colour vision don't actually know it or even suspect it until they have colour vision tests. And don't think you can take your own at home on a computer screen; it's not the same, particularly when scrolling the image. The ulitmate test is in the field and if your regulating body allows field tests and reconizes predetermined pass rates, that is where one should be concentrating one's efforts.
Has anyone undergone the PAPI sim at City University London? Is it a factual representation of the PAPI we all use in our flying?
My personal opinion from experience is that it is absolutely nothing like it whatsoever.
They claim it to be representative of a PAPI at 4 NM but rest assured, it is more representative of a PAPI at >10 NM, powered by 2 x AAA batteries on an aerodrome with no other lighting whatsoever, located on a desert island in the middle of a very dark ocean.
If it had been meant to test the ability of a pilot to land an aircraft in total 'black hole' effect, I would give it a big tick but anyone landing an aircraft using ONLY a dimly lit PAPI with absolutely no other cues would be taking a big chance. If the power has failed all other lighting would you really trust the PAPI is operating properly? If the airport authority can't afford any other lighting, would you trust they've calibrated and tested properly the PAPI lighting?
When landing at night, you use runway lighting perspective as well as PAPI, cross checking distance against altitude or height AGL on the approach profile Remember, it is called a PRECISION APPROACH Path Indicator - Precision Approach = ILS or MLS so, for the approach you must have calibrated and operational airborne equipment. The PAPI is an additional aid to the ILS/MLS equipment plus Approach Procedure and NOT a be all and end all, as has been suggested by one well known aviation authority.
The last time I dropped a GP on vectors to an ILS, I requested a LOC/DME Non Precision Approach and was immediately asked by ATC if I wanted distance calls, which I accepted and they provided every 1-2 NM. They didn't ask me or suggest to me that I should use the PAPI - oh yes, I couldn't, I was in IMC. How is a PAPI supposed to be of any use, even on CAT I let alone II or III.
Pardon my cynicism but if you ask me, the PAPI test, in fact the whole CVD/CAD study, was designed to facilitate the desired end result. The study was not allowed to fail; there was too much money put into it.
Yes, been through it twice, to find I have a problem with light scatter, which means instead of seeing 4 x lights I see 4 x starbursts, each one comprising 4 x lights.
Extremely bizarre, very difficult to explain to someone who doesn't experience it and something which doesn't manifest itself on real PAPI's, by day or night, although it is a problem I also have with stars - I don't see one, I see three or four, even more after a bucket of Stella . Bright lights are not an issue, just pinpoints, which the PAPI Simulator comprises.
As I said above, my personal opinion from hundreds of approaches as a student pilot, CPL/IR holder and instructor is that it is not representative of an actual PAPI. I have never had a problem with any approach systems, VASI, T-VASI, PAPI or any other but because of the light scatter I found the PAPI simulator impossible. I told them so and they told me to guess, which made me realise they weren't actually interested in the results - it was a fait acomplit.
So, I'm 19 years old and for the last 10 years, a day hasn't passed without me thinking of being a commercial airline pilot. So I found a flight school where they recommended me to a Civil Aviation Medical Examiner where I did my tests for my Category 1 medical. I passed everything flawlessly until the examiner took out an Ishihara booklet. I found can't read some of the plates so I was told to take a Farnsworth d15. In the d15, i found out i have a green colour deficiency, but I didn't think much of it and sent it with my application to Transport Canada. I thought everything was fine so I continued with my flight school application. They asked me verbally if i passed my Category 1, I told them I was expecting it in the mail. So I was accepted. One day, I come home to find a letter from Transport so I excitedly opened it expecting my Cat1. It turns out it was a letter saying I have to do a D15 or lantern test to get rid of my "day flying only" restriction. So I immediately booked an appointment.
I did the lantern test, but failed. Interestingly, in the results, for every green I said white and for every white I said green. I absolutely did not mix the green or the white up with each other, if I reversed my answers, I would've gotten 100%. I want to do the test again, but do any of you think because I was nervous? when I stepped into the exam room all the kept running through my mind was that if I failed that, I wouldn't be able to do the only thing that i have ever wanted to do after high school. Do you think there's still hope for me?
Hi, i would like to ask if there are color blind pilots? I'm currently based here in the philippines, about to finish my CPL training and i'm afraid that i won't be able to pass my medical exam becuase of color deficiency? Can i make it on airlines? Or can you suggest what to do for me to work on airlines? it's my dream to ba an airline pilot but i have this color problem on my eyes.
Does anybody know wether colourblind people can join qatarairways? I have class 1 medical exam in Brazil and i´ve never had any problem with that over here. I also fly for Gol linhas aereas wich has 737. This means that colourblindness does not interfere on aviation operations. In 2006, when I got my first class 1 medical exam the doctor said that i couldn´t fly for air force, but there were no restrictions about civil aviation. If somebody knows anything about qatar requirements I would be pleased.
Chaps Just thought I would update the situation as it currently stands in Australia as I have have several PM's lately requesting info. I had reason to speak with CASA Medical department today regarding another matter but I also asked for clarification on what testing is being conducted here at the moment.
First you do the Ishihara 24 plate version;
When you fail that you do the Farnsworth;
When you fail that you can do the Signal Light Gun test at your local airfield, and or
the practical lantern test conducted at the Victorian School of Optometry.
You can do all four tests if you need to, you only need to pass one to be cleared with an unrestricted class one medical. I passed the practical lantern test.