Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
Sorry to start a thread on this - I know there are lots already but I have not found anything that answers my specific query. Some say if you have been on anti depressants then a class 1 is out the window, others say not.
In 2004 I started suffering from anxiety attacks and depression due to a house move and illness of a close family member. I was prescribed a mild anti depressive which was very effective quickly and I was back on my feet within a couple of weeks (albeit dependent on the pills). I stopped taking them about 9/10 months later and have been fine since - so getting on for 2 years.
I went for my initial class 1 a few weeks ago, and disclosed (foolishly?) that I had this episode in the past and was on treatment for 9 months or so. I did not pass the medical, pending a report from GP setting out the treatment and prognosis etc. That has apparantly been supplied to the CAA now (although I haven't seen or recieved a copy, which is odd) and they have invited me down to Gatwick again for assessment with the resident Psychiatrist to 'consider certification'.
I'm slightly peeved by this. I have been ok for 2 years without any medication, my GP report will have confirmed that. I have been up front and honest about my illness and the treatment.
I appreciate full checks have to be made and they are simply doing their job, but my question is - am I:
(a) doomed to failure, and the CAA are just looking to rinse another £90 out of me before giving me the bad news;
(b) likely to get through, and they just want to psychiatrist to have a chat as a safety net before they provide the class 1;
I have never seen a psychiatrist before: I have never had to. I don't see what else can be provided by me on this: they have all the details and surely must know whether I can get the Class 1 or not.
glad to hear that you've made a good recovery from something which could strike any of us down at any minute.
I don't have any connection to aviation medicine, apart from contributing to, and reading this forum, but from previous posts on this subject, I wouldn't be too disheartened at this point, after all they havn't said no.
I guess it's understandable that you're a bit peeved, it sounds like you've had supportive treatment from your GP, but the boy's at the CAA are coming from a slightly different perspective, their number one priority is the safety of the public, not your health, so, I guess, the seeking of an expert opinion, in the form of a psychiatrist, is quite reasonable.
I wouldn't be too worried about seeing the psychiatrist, it sound's like standard practice for the job of getting you through the medical. Don't treat it as a stigma, if I was in their position, I'd probably do the same. (The non-medical term for this is "covering your arse")
I'm not speaking from experience here, but as if I were in your position. And, I'd have to say, you've been completely honest, and appear to not have any outstanding issues which may be of concern to the CAA, so I'd just consider it a precautionary measure as stated previously, and just go along for the chat with this Dr/psychiatrist, which by the sounds of it, I'm sure you'll sail through.
Thanks for the words of supports chaps. I fully understand why they need to do it and I'll just continue to be fully upfront and honest.
I will keep the thread updated once I have been for my 'chat' should anyone else be in a similar situation (and I know there are many) and is concerned about their Class 1 chances.
For what it's worth, I've had a couple of dealings with the CAA medical people and I've found them to be extremely helpful. Their attitude is positive and their aim is to get you back flying if at all possible. Good luck.
Hi Mark,
Respect is due to you for your candour in admitting your past problem.
I suspect that there are plenty of people who would not have the courage that you have shown or even admit to themselves that they have been, or are going through, something similar.
I have just emailed a few AMEs because I am on hour 8 of my PPL and needed to sort out my Class 2 Initial. I mentioned I am on Paroxetine because of I had some panic/anxiety attacks a few years ago. The AME has said I have no chance while Im on it so I now need to look at coming off it! Does anyone know if I would be OK with the NPPL in my current condition. My plan being to carry on and assuming I get off the Paroxetine then convert to the PPL.
I think you will find that if your GP considers you fit for a DVLC class 2 medical, which is the standard required for HGV and PSV driving, you will be OK for the NPPL. Go to the PFA website for all the details, and good luck.
mcharnley..Paroxetine is a SSRI and requires a period of withdrawal under the supervision of your GP/psychiatrist. Usually concurrent with a psychological plan of readiness to move back to your previous state of good health.
It is not a medication you can give up without medical input. The medication will be annotated on your medical file.
Said I'd post an update on here when I'd been for my further assessment at the CAA.
Well, all seems to be well. I went in for a chat with the consultant pshychiatrist there, talked about the illness and treatment, how I feel now and general stuff about upbringing, childhood, family etc. It was all very relaxed, the chap seemed genuinely interested in helping me and he confirmed he was happy to certify me to fly. He also suggested should there be a repeat of symptoms (which is always possible) then CBT is a good way to go about nipping it in the bud and it is often used by current pilots who are struggling a little.
I passed the rest of the class 1 at my intial visit, so fingers crossed the damn thing is now in the post!
Moral of the story: don't give up! Having suffered from depression/anxiety need not mean the end of your dreams.
Now, just need to find £70k and off we go hopefully!
There you go, 273 views and not one reply in over 24 hours.
Such is the stigma attached to this illness.
And yet: it is the single most commonly treated illness in UK GP surgeries now. 3.2 million people in the UK alone, at anyone time, are suffering from clinical depression. This means that they're not just 'down in the dumps', but have a diagnosable illness which is potentially fatal (suicide).
Depression is estimated to cost the UK economy £8 billion per year. In 2002 in the UK, over 13 million prescriptions were written out for the SSRI (prozac) family of drugs alone.
And in aviation circles, it's even more of a taboo than in the general population. Not difficult to work out why. Any diagnosis of depressive illness in a pilot or air traffic controller is likely to lead to grounding and/or loss of licence, at least temporarily. And yet pilots are subject to some of the higest levels of stress at work. Depression in pilots is a common problem. Talking about it is not common, and that is a problem in itself.
As far as I know, taking anti-depressants disqualifies you from holding any CAA medical certificate. This was certainly the case a few years ago and I don't think anything has changed. In the USA there was some talk of allowing private pilots to fly while on medication, but there's no chance of you holding a Class 1 medical for any type of commercial flying while you are taking anti-depressants, anywhere in the world.
From what I hear, though, the CAA do try to help get pilots who've been grounded by depression back and up flying.
The wall of silence really needs to be broken down: apart from anything else, it means that pilots who are unfit to fly through depression will carry on flying because they understandably don't want to imperil the career that they've worked so hard for.
Anyone have any knowledge?
Yes, a lot of people have knowledge of this. Whether or not they are prepared to talk about it on here is a different question entirely.
Thanks joysticks - and apologies for the incorrect information above. I am pleasantly surprised to see that the Australian authorities have taken what must be the correct course given that depression can be very well managed with medication, and the blanket policy on grounding pilots on medication only serves to make a bad situation worse: if you know you'll be grounded, you will be very unlikely to go to your doctor and will carry on flying when not fit to do so.
For over 10 years CASA has been issuing medical certificates to pilots and air traffic controllers who use antidepressant medication. CASA adopted this policy as a positive safety initiative and it has enabled many pilots and air traffic controllers to continue operating in a properly managed way.
Are there any other Authorities who have taken similar initiatives? What is the current situation in UK/Canada/USA?
I am a student pilot studying for JAR PPL. I currently hold a valid class 2 medical for this reason.
I am also starting to think that I am suffering from a form of depression. I do not want go into explicit detail but I have reached the point where I think I should visit my GP to discuss this issue. However, I am scared that if I am right, and I am diagnosed with depression that I am sure I would lose my medical and would not be able to continue my training. Right now, flying is the only thing in my life that I can find any kind of joy in and losing this would almost certainly do more harm than good.
Does anybody know what the effect of such a diagnosis would be? I have heard stories about depressed pilots crashing their aircraft intentionally but this is most certainly not something I would even contemplate, and even if I did, my negative feelings disappear the moment I shout, "clear prop" and start the engine.
If I am diagnosed, and I lose my class 2 while I am treated, does anybody know whether a class 3 and NPPL would be an option? I don't know how I would deal with losing the only thing I seem to care about.
Go and see your GP. Explain that being immediately treated with medication will not only affect your med cert but also would be detrimental to your mood as a result. Hopefully he will make an early referral for counselling/psychiatric help.
Drugs are certainly not the only option in depressive illness but they can help with the acute phase. There was something in the news recently about depression but it is very common, nothing to be ashamed about and usually eminently treatable, especially with the right motivation that it seems you have.
Psychiatrists are also now suggesting that we are over-labelling people who are just a bit cheesed off with their lives as depressed. There is a difference!
Hope you feel better soon. Let us know how it goes.
I agree - speak to your GP and explain. It's what I did when in your situation. I was told by the CAA that anti depressants will ground you - other forms of treatment, such as therapy, will not. I was my own worst enemy, and didn't talk about my problems. I was embarrassed. But as people have said on here, the stigma needs to be lifted. The best thing you can do it talk - you've done well to even post on here as a start.
If you GP is worth his salt, he'll do what's best for you. I was helped by medication at the time, but I wasn't flying then and I would not go back on them again. But that's just me - we're all different. I thought I was screwed by disclosing this at my class 1 medical. But the CAA - despite a lot of the negative comments about them -do genuinely want to help you. Whatever happens though remember this: THINGS WILL AND DO GET BETTER.
I ran into this in 1995 in Canada. My regular doctor thought that I "might" be suffering from depression and prescribed one of the Prozac type drugs. I really didn't think anything of it until I went for my aviation medical where I was immediately disqualified. I eventually got my licence back after stopping the drug and a visit to a psychiatrist who pronounced me sane enough to fly. So yes, as far as I know the same rules apply as in the US.
I enjoyed flying on my PPL with IMC over 50 hours per year until June last year (2006) when I grounded myself due to stress from a very intense work situation. I eventually went to the GP and saw a counsellor who diagnosed clinical depression. I went on a course of prozac and now feel 100% better.
First point: If you feel stressed or possibly depressed then don't fly. You may be able to fly normally but the minute you have additional stress in the flight there is a very strong chance that you would not be able to cope.
Second point: I neglected to inform the CAA until recently (you are suppose to inform them after 20 days I think) when I felt ready to fly again. I spoke to a lady at the CAA and she could not be more sympathetic. I now have two letters from the CAA, one grounding me (a formal letter I should have received 20 days after grounding myself) and then a letter requesting some fairly detailed information from my GP about my current condition.
Third point: Frankly I'm glad that the CAA takes this approach. I don't know how long it will take for me to be able to fly again. But depression is a serious enough illness in relation to something like flying that I'd strongly advise following good sense and safe practice for yourself and others
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