Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
If you are going for a Job reading numbers in a colour card book then those books are relevant.
I have a tiny problem with colour which has never restricted my medical until I had to wear specs for reading. My long distance still being excellent.
Not liking wearing specs I had them tinted to look like sun glasses. I could hardly read a thing.
The Docter insisted I use the glasses to read the book regardless of the tinting and made me have a lantern test which I passed 100% with clear glasses.
It is pretty obvious to anyone that the person with the best colour vision in the world is going to see green if he looks through yellow glasses at blue etc etc etc with other shades of colours
Maybe the use of sunglasses should be banned?
Just a warning to people who use glasses and have them tinted.
Hi all fellow CVDs
I remember reading about Colormax Color Vision Correction lenses a few years back.What ever happened to these?have the FAA/CAA looked into this?
One would get a bit frustrated if the answer is in these lenses and they are not certified because of some bureaucratic mambo-jambo....
Rgds
Last edited by Hawk : 11th September 2006 at 03:41.
Reason: advertising
I'm trying to get a Class 1 medical in Canada but I'm color blind.(red/green problem) I can't see a thing in in the Ishira plates nor can I complete the Farnsworth D15 test. I'm trying to get to do the Beyne Lantern test but I'm a bit worried. Does transport canada do that test ? Anyone with color problems got their class 1 medical in canada ? Does anyone know of a place where I can purchase or try a Beyne lantern to see what it's like ?
I'd really like your advice guys. I'm worried I won't be able to get the C1 medical because of that stupid eye problem. That would suck because being a pilot is what I want to do since I'm like 6 year old.
I've used a colour vision contact lens in the past and it certainly wasn't very useful for many things.
I'm unsure if they're exactly the same as the ones you mention but the one I tried was a clear contact lens with a distinct deep red spot on the centre of vision.
I don't know how it works but I went from not being able to read a couple of Ishihara plates to seeing every one of them. It didn't help all that much.
The negetive side is that there is only one lens and this is placed on your weaker eye. So through your weaker eye everything within your immediate centre of vision is a red colour. The peripheral (spell?) vision is normal but you get a strong clash with normal vision in your strong eye (with no lens in) with a red/clear vision in your weaker eye. It is sort of like looking through those great 3D glasses you get out of cereal packets. The ones with a Red and Green lens.
You then find yourself fighting to control what eye you really want to look out. Your strong eye is dominant but your weaker eye helps the colour vision in certain tasks. I must stress that I personally got confused an awful lot on some things. Because the lens makes you see red, everything has a red tinge to it. Even Green things! I found myself seeing red things in my strong eye that were in fact red, but the lens then turned them into a bright green! It was a very very perculiar experience. I know the contradicts the previous sentence but that did happen.
However red objects and red colours, say red spots on a brown background did then stand out like i've never experienced before. The funny thing is I think I have mild deutanopia. Mild green deficiency.
I think one of the problems I found was that it wans't perscribed with enough accuracy. My optician has given me good eyesight figures but when he ordered the lens with those figures in mind, my sight was a little blurred when looking through the lens. Don't forget the lens has to be specially made for your eyesight and I think mine needed a slight perscription altered to it.
I was told very adamently not to go driving with them and I understood why. I only tried them for a couple of weeks but they did help with the Ishihara plates. I think they may help me spot the brown ball on a snooker table when I watch TV too. In real life I don't have much problem with the colours on a snooker table. Its just tv that makes me struggle.
I'd be interested in seeing how it affects vision for pilots and ATCOs but I think i'd rather trust my natural colour blind vision.
You really need to try it to understand my experience and it is likely that your experience will be different anyway because our colour vision is very unique to each and everyone of us.
Hope that helps.
Shg.
Last edited by shgsaint : 29th September 2008 at 19:10.
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 890
Some info for anyone thinking of going to the USA - the FAA has scrapped the Farnsworth Lantern Test (See FAA medical website).
9 out of 22 is a pass in Canada? How the hell can one country (or group of countries) stipulate NIL errors as a pass whereas another country will permit 2 errors, another 6 and another country allows lots?
Isn't it strange that one of the the only countries that doesn't permit any mistakes is the same country that publishes a document stating that the Ishihara tests and the lantern tests are unreliable!
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 890
Apologies for the misinformation, troops.
The statement is on the AOPA US members page but on re-reading it there is an anomaly as it states:
"The best option for many pilots is to pass one of the FAA-approved alternative pseudoisochromatic tests. The attached sheet from the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners lists the optional tests and requirements for satisfactory completion based upon the class of medical applied for. (Important note: The FAA no longer accepts The Farnsworth Lantern D15.) You can see the eye care specialist of your choice for the tests. It may take a few phone calls to locate the test you want to take. Ask the doctor to report the type of test and the results on office letterhead. Make a copy of the letter for your records and send the results to the FAA."
However, the Farnsworth D15 and Lantern Tests are two different tests and another article I have read suggests the D15 is not up to the job.
The FAA still states that the Farnsworth Lantern Test IS an acceptable alternative but it makes no mention of the D15 so I would tend to believe that the D15 is the test that has been withdrawn and NOT the Lantern.
After my appointment with City Uni for a full colour vision assessment back in July I volunteered to trial the new PAPI test and have just been back to do the tests today, this is a write up of my experience.
I was given a number of different tests. Three of these were a repeat of the Colour Assesment and Diagnostic test (CAD) described in my post above. It is the computer monitor with grey animated square, and an area of colour moving across one of the diagonals. It runs in 1 second cycles and you press a button corresponding to the corner of the square where you think the coloured area stopped moving. The difference each of the three times I took this test is the amount of background noise added in to the animation. The "standard" level is 45% noise, which I did last time. This time I did 12%, 60% and 90% (I think). Presumably the idea is to see how people perform at more extreme levels of ease/difficulty, to help find or confirm the "normal" noise level to use.
Then took the PAPI test - this is basically a series of four lights in a horizontal line, which can be white or red. They light for about 1 second then you have to say how many red lights you see, from 0-4 (ie five possible answers). Having never used PAPIs (I'm a <10hours PPL student) I found this test easy, but I can seperate red and white ok, its the white/green on the Holmes Wright lantern I struggled with.
There is a second stage to this test with five different colours - white, red, green, yellow and blue. These either appear on their own, or in a pair, one of which is always white. You have to say the other colour. I found blue and red easy every time, struggled to differentiate white, green and yellow sometimes.
The CAD test is important as according to the person testing me, it will likely be used in conjunction with the PAPI test in the future. This is basically because the CAD test is relatively easy to recreate in reasonably equal conditions (its basically just a software package I guess, maybe with a certain type of monitor etc). The PAPI test is a large, fairly mechanical piece of kit which is cumbersome and expensive, so I gathered not practical for widespread use.
It is my understanding that something like this could happen in the future:
1. The CAD test "replaces" Ishihara plates as the initial screening, possibly for Class 2 as well as Class 1. It is more accurate than Ishihara as it narrows your CVD down to a fairly close range.
2. Anyone "failing" this test, against whatever standards/prescription is set, would then have to take the PAPI test. This would probably only be possible at a few or even just one (Gatwick?) location.
Please note this last hypothesis on the future is entirely my understanding from talking to the person testing me, I got the impression it was still a moving piece (so to speak) with the CAA and nothing is definite yet. Clearly the results of the testing phase I took part in will help shape the future.
I hope somehow this all leads to a fairer or more realistic set of standards and tests for colour vision in the future. All I want to do is fly and no one I've spoken to so far can point to specific things that I can't do, apart from perhaps identify an aircraft at night from wing lights only. How likely is that in this day and age? If you're IFR in controlled airspace you'd better know a collision is approaching long before those lights save you.... or they could just change it worldwide to blue and yellow for port and starboard!!!
Probably too much detail on here already but if anyone wants more feel free to PM. I know one or two other people posting on this thread might be taking part in this trial, any comments from others experiences would be very interesting.
Last edited by east_sider : 12th September 2006 at 23:28.
Reason: spelling
After my appointment with City Uni for a full colour vision assessment back in July I volunteered to trial the new PAPI test and have just been back to do the tests today, this is a write up of my experience.
Five or six years ago I went to City Uni for an assessment after failing my Class 1; I can't recommend them enough.
Do you know if they're still looking for volunteers? I work just around the corner, and I have very slight protanopia, sufficiently slight that the only thing I've ever confused is the white and red lights on the Holmes-Wright lantern!
Hey all just a quick question i thought i better throw out.
Im living in australia and have a class 1 med but im also colourblind. i passed the "latern test" but im concerned that i may have fluked it because i have no hope on the ishaira(?) test which i failed, luckily the ishaira test doesnt count apparently. Just thought i'd ask, how often does a pilot have colourblind testing?
If you pass does that mean it wont happen again because theres nothing on my licence or medical that mentions it. Also are you tested as part of a flight screening? My father has been working for the same airline for 20 years and he has no idea about any overseas limitations.
Also im apparently eligible for a irish passport and was planning on heading over looking for a job after i finish my training, is this avenue now closed because of my colour vision? ive never had any "real world" issues with it when im flying.
No, it didn't. What it did identify was that every single system on board the respective aircraft was not only dependent on colour but also used audio and lighting as references. In the vast majority of cases the QinetiQ report showed that colour was far from being important.
However, unbelievably, the CAA state that as the report is discussing colour vision this is the only criteria they are considering. Uncanny!
I was quite gobsmacked when I read their analysis (or rather disregard) of the QinetiQ research.
Very biased, I felt, but please read both parts (I suggest you read Part 2 first - that is very encouraging - then read Part 1 for some first class disillusionment).
Please make up your own minds.
2close
Can you provide links to the Qinetiq report and the CAA response-I've had aquick lookbut can't find them
Thanks
As I said above, I suggest you read Paper 2 first as this centres on the QinetiQ research, which is quite encouraging.
Then read Paper 1.
The one line I really like (and I am paraphrasing very loosely) "we know that there are several redundancy systems that permit identification of systems other than by colour, e.g, audio, flashing lights, but we are going to ignore all of them because we are only interested in colours".
What absolute rubbish. The whole idea of such redundancy is to enable persons to identify warnings, etc. by various methods. To only consider colour as a criteria is ridiculous and my interpretation of the QinetiQ study is that, so far as the cockpit environment is concerned, colour seems to be the least important of the stimuli. There are occasions outside the cockpit where correct colour identification would be more important but even these hardly seem to be critical to flight safety.
In any case, as I've already said, make up your own minds.
Cheers,
2close
Last edited by 2close : 27th September 2006 at 21:15.
In the UK you are only tested for colour vision at your initial exam. Medical renewals do not have a colour blindness test. Not so sure about other countries.
I have read alot ( read all )of the CVD threads and am pleased to here that many of you are persisting and winning this evil ( read descrimitive ) battle.... I am a CVD (CP3) CPL holder in OZ with full class 1 and have an incredible Italian fiancee (read my ability to gain a working visa.. Yes I have had it confirmed). I am about to start my JAA ATPL study but live with fear that i may not be able to pass the CAA class 1 medical due to being colour deficient.....
As I understand the testing may be changing in the near future but i need to sort out this medical ASAP ie..end of NOV... I have read that some of you have had better luck in gaining your class 1 in other EU states and having it validated rather than just doing it in the UK.. I'm not looking for a free pass rather than trying to give my self the best chance of getting through. Of thoes of you that have had better luck in other EU states can any one please help me out with some contact details for a good AME. I will be arriving in London on the 28th of NOV and would expect to have had to have a booking made well in advance....
Any and all help very much appreciated
CHEERS..... JUZ777
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