Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
FAA 1st class color blindness test worries: please don't shoot me down
Hello fellow aviators:
I do apologize If i'm starting another color blindess thread instead of posting in the designated area.
I have aquestion regarding the Isahara color blindness test they administer for 1st class medicals; I applied for a 1st class yesterday and they asked me to flip through a booklet of about 15 or so circles w/ numbers; you guys know the procedure; 2 of them i couldn't read them so i thought they were the unreadable ones they put in just to throw you off in case your color vision isn't normal; the nurse then tells me I got two numbers wrong so if she was right i'm sure those were the ones she was referring to. I've done this test before and I remember there is always one circle at the end that doesn't have a number emerge to color normal individuals, but it turns out that in this boklet all the circles contained a number. I still got the class 1; the doctor never mentioned anything abou that, but my question is if this has ever happened to any of you before and if you have to get all the samples right in order to qualify to pass w/ the color vison test or if there is some percentage you have to score above. I've taken a bunch of samples online that same day when I got home and I never managed to find that same color circle which I couldn't decipher; so my guess is that my color vision is fine; could I be wrong??
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 887
That's a good point, Jimmy.
Ishihara tests are designed to be conducted in Northern Daylight. Most Optometrists have a lamp which simulates this condition but as with all things mechanical they will all be subject to degradation over time.
According to an Optometrist friend of mine, the Ishihara tests are only ever truly reliable if they are conducted in good daylight conditions.
As for the Ishihara tests being different, I was informed that the only differences were between the 24 and 36 plate editions . JAA requirements are based only on the first 16 plates of the 24 plate edition.
Just to update, I have now sat the FAA class 1 medical and passed on the ishara plates. Concidering I completely failed the CAA colour vision tests, not bad eh?
Hi there.. Does anybody knows what happens if you omit information, for example, if you omit that you have been denied a medical certificate for the same class in a JAA country before, if you donīt mention it in the medical formulary before the new examination takes place in a different JAA country .
What happens if the country that denied you the initial medical certificate finds out that you passed it in a different JAA country but you didnīt mention that you had a denial with them??
Does anybody knows? and most important, can that be ammended somehow? can you ask for an ammendment of your statement?
and also, if you put that you had a denial in a JAA country before, will they pass you anyway or what procedure do they follow? Does anybody knows these??
Regards,
Do you know which examination the initial doc failed you on? Why do you think you failed the initial and why did you go for a second?
One concerns omitting information on a medical application. The second concerns not accepting or liking the results of a medical examination and as result going forum shopping until you get the result you want.
If you omit relevant information you should correct it at the earliest opportunity. Of course you cannot omit something you did not reasonably know at the time, however if you did withold relevant information you can expect undesirable consequences as a result.
If you are denied a medical and then decide to go shopping in another forum to obtain a different result, you cannot really expect the initial authority to simply say "that's fine" and accept the new result, where they have already raised a concern or made a stipulation.
To suggest that any medical deficiency is best judged by the individual themselves as to whether they are "safe" or not is simply inaccurate and irrelevant. An attempt to bypass the criteria set down by a state is probably naive and certainly a risky venture if the applicant ever intends having to make a subsequent application to that state.
I wish you well in your endeavour, and hope you are successful in resolving these difficulties, however I do feel you have been the architect of your own misfortune here and believed what you wanted to believe in order to suit your own situation.
Well finally a breakthrough. This is the study we all been waiting for and compliments to the CAA/JAA and City university. I look a bit like the australian research a few years ago only more extensive.
Is the new test already in production and if not, when will it? and what is the standard for a class 1? I am very curious.
I know some of you guys went to the city university.
The initial Doc failed me with the colour lantern test due to my mild CVD. I went to try another test somewhere else (JAA) because I am already a Pilot with an FAA CPL and an FAA 1st class unrestricted since 1990, so I thought that I should give it another try somewhere else.. Besides, I was never happy on how they managed my case (I felt discriminated!! - like if a had a contagious disease!!).. Why the **** I cannot fly in my country or in any other EU-JAA state?.. Yes, I am CVD, so? What are the lanterns for? I am already flying.. Isn´t it silly that I can come to every EU-JAA state with an FAA resgistered B747?? Who is that Doc to tell me that I can not fly anymore??
Fortunately the JAA rules gives some choices about acceptable colour lanterns types (it says that you can pass "ONE" of the lanterns and you can be considered "safe" (shopping around?? or fair options-chances?).. Does JAR´s says that if you have a medical denied you can never ever try again or that you can not go to other JAA country??
Due to all mentioned above and similar cases posted here in PPRuNe (thanks guys!!) I decided to try somewhere else and I finally end up passing the test with "flying colours"!!. Why the ***^ they (my country) are not accepting-recognicing my new unrestricted JAA 1st Class Medical Certificate?? it is all JAA and I can use it all over the EU, around my country too !! !!?¿? Are they upset because I finally got it?
All they are holding to is that I didn´t mention in my new initial medical application form that I had a denial before, that´s what I call b*****t..
Like I posted here before, I´ve talked personally to my new Doc and he told me that he knew that I had a CVD problem (I told him when I did my appointment) and that I shouldn´t worry about ticking yes or no in the ******* box, he told me that he treated me as a new candidate with a CVD problem, that´s what I call fair, impartial!!.. And just in case, I also gave him a written letter requesting ammendment of my "ticking" mistake because I know that they (my country) will try to take the medical off me for sure. The "ticking" it is only an excuse as any other that they will look for..
Pigsfly.. thanks!! I´ll check for Homer more often!!
Bealzebub.. thanks for your post and nope, I never liked the results. At the above post you´ll find many reasons why, I have some more if you want.
Looking for the result that I want? no!! the one´s that I deserve and not only the results but the treatment!! (forum shopping? can I shop here?)..
What I do expect from the initial authority? to know and comply the JAA-JAR´s and off course accept my medical certificate and the reality that I am already a pilot..
The Doc that denied my first initial medical doesn´t even knows that other lanterns exists until I showed him, they don´t even have an advance "practical" medical training (I personally asked him), as required by our beloved JAA-JAR´s..
I know a lot about my country and about the "civil servants" here, they love to play God.. How can that person tells me that I can not fly due to my CVD when he doesn´t even know nothing about all these? If somebody comes here and demostrates and convinces me that I shouldn´t be flying I´ll pay him!!.. but guess what? the real situation is that I can demostrate right the opposite!! do they let you do that? Why not?
Irrelevant that we (CVD - already pilots) really knows if we are safe or not?!!.. irrelevant? do you think that I´ll be flying around if I wouldn´t differentiate any of the colours that we see and use while flying!!! Does anybody knows how many CVD Pilot´s are flying under FAA alone?
I´ve been in an A320 cockpit many times (glass cockpit ), for the whole part of the flight, with a captain that knew my "colour defficiency", and guess what he said after several flights practicing around with the colours?..
I know that I can use my new JAA medical for flying all over EU but what if they (my country) try to get my medical suspended or even worse, revoked by the JAA? that´s what I´m worried about and that´s my question here.. Can they do that? Why they don´t just accept it and recognized that I passed one of the ****** lanterns with a JAA recognized AMC, that I now have been considered "safe" by a JAA AMC/AMS!!
Well, I guess that´s enough for now, sorry for the lengthy post!! and yes I am an architect, of my life, my only misfortune is to stumble with intransigent people, not ready for a change and not prepared enough to make decisions, decisions that affects other´s people lives. Simply, not fair!!
Where and when did you take the FAA and JAA tests?
2close
FAA tests were taken in Glasgow by a qualified AME less than a week ago. For the colour vision he opened the book and went through the first few plates then a couple of random ones. He didn't mention failing any and just sayed "you passed, no problems".
I sat the JAA (CAA) exam at Gatwick in june. They put me through the plates where I failed 7. They then put me through the signal tests. (In light and dark). I failed but they would not say how badly. They will not send the results out to me... I wanted to try my local optician to see how the results compared but they won't test me without knowing the CAA requirements...
Hope that helps you out... Just post back if you want more info.
Is there any way getting gatwick to accept the FAA results or even allow a retest based on it?
Hey everybody, am relatively new to this whole forum, but i, like many others on here, am red/green defective. firstly i would ilke to say thanks for everyone who has posted on this thread as it has helped me a lot in figuring this whole colourblindness and flying thing out. Now my question is this: how many colourblind people are actually professional pilots, be it in england, USA austrailia or wherever, flying commercially for airlines?
I am applying to become an ATCO and have a question about the ATCO version of the JAR CLass 1 medical for eyesight....
For the JAR Class 1 medical the CAA says that you must pass the Ishihara test, and if you can't do that then you must pass an approved lantern test.
For my own peace of mind I have taken the Ishihara test locally and will take a lantern test next week. I can get most of the questions right in the Ishihara but do have difficulty with some. As I suspect that I failed an RAF medical on colour vision 12 years ago, I am a little anxious.
My question is,
Are the rules for colour vision for ATCO and pilots EXACTLY the same, or are they slightly less strict for ATCO? (The CAA says that the eyesight medical for ATCO "generally" follows the JAR Class 1")
I don't see any posts on the forum colour blind thread specifically about ATC so I hope that someone can help here.
Generally the standard is the same except that an ATCO medical is a CAA medical rather than one to JAA standards.
THe argument gets a little more difficult here as there is probably moer reason to insist that an ATCO does not possess a colour deficiency as they have to make decisions based on the colour of lights on the ground and in the air and upon colour displays in front of them. They do not have much of the technology, such as TCAS, that is being used in the arguement against the flight crew standard.
The authority says it is "concerned" that the present colour vision requirements may be inappropriate for pilot tasks that have emerged since current tests were introduced. It is working with City University in London to develop a computer-based colour assessment and diagnosis (CAD) test that aims to be "fair and task-related", says CAA optometrist Adrian Chorley.
[...]
I have protanomalous vision, which means I have difficulty distiguishing red. I won't pass an Ishihara colour-card test, so to say the least I am very interested to know if this might mean I actually have a shot at getting a class I medical after all.
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 887
Quote:
A number of areas where colour is critical to flightcrew operations were identified, says the CAA.
No, it didn't. What it did identify was that every single system on board the respective aircraft was not only dependent on colour but also used audio and lighting as references. In the vast majority of cases the QinetiQ report showed that colour was far from being important.
However, unbelievably, the CAA state that as the report is discussing colour vision this is the only criteria they are considering. Uncanny!
I was quite gobsmacked when I read their analysis (or rather disregard) of the QinetiQ research.
Very biased, I felt, but please read both parts (I suggest you read Part 2 first - that is very encouraging - then read Part 1 for some first class disillusionment).
,
!!
), for the whole part of the flight, with a captain that knew my "colour defficiency", and guess what he said after several flights practicing around with the colours?.. 
Linear Mode
