Medical & HealthNews and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME.
Whitelabel - Thanks for the address !
Do they give you the full range of tests, help you understand which you can pass, what Gatwick use etc? I'm hoping so!
Yes they do give you a range of tests (not all though), but certainly the main ones used at Gatwick. They do tell you the colours before you test which is fairer and I found that they allow you plenty of time to let your eyes acclimatise to the dark.
They provide you with a written report on your specific condition. All very useful if a little bit expensive.
They also advised that there are different tests in different JAR countries and the protocol for test standards differs as well.
DLR - Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt
Institut für Luft- und Raumfahrtmedizin
Flugmedizinisches Zentrum
Gebäude 24
Linder Höhe
D-51147 Köln
Here is the address of the AMC in Germany (Köln)
Iam planning to go there 2.
good luck
This is the same AMC that I went to do my colourvision test and then my class 1 medical. They were extremely helpful and I passed the beyene lantern test there!
I sat my CAA class 1 medical yesterday. Everything was well witihin limits appart from colour blindness. After sitting both types of lantern test they have declaired me colour unsafe.
Now, I know I can read light signals on an airfield no problems.
It has been mentioned that you can go to other JAA countries to sit the medical (and different colour blindness tests). Any recommendations?
Also the FAA route has been mentioned. I would not mind going to the US to train and fly but would I be able to fly internationally with a US medical?
Any help to get through this part of the medical is very much appreciated.
Count me in unfazed. We need to give them a wake up call!!!
They say due to glass cockpit etc. colour discrimination is very important but we all know (the colour unsafe people) this is not entirely true.
If you believe that colourvision is important I think colour discrimination is more important for VFR pilots then it is for IFR pilots. We fly perfect under VFR conditions so what will be the problem when we will fly under IFR conditions???
It is rather strange!
Let hope the JAA will do something (positive) for us.
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 890
I am currently working on preparing a technical / legal argument against exclusion of CVD pilots from professional flying and here is something very interesting from the HSE.
You will note on page 3, paragraph 15, that it clearly states that colour vision naturally deteriorates with age and potentially affects ability to differentiate colours.
Taking this into consideration, surely, if flight safety is dependent on a pilot's ability to correctly discriminate between colours, the authorities have a legal and moral duty to test colour vision not only at initial medical but also at certain intervals.
This is obviously something that has not been recently discovered so one asks the question why it isn't done. After all, flight safety does not cease to be an issue just because the flight crew is older.
However, introducing such testing under current testing standards may result in a significant number of professional flight crew suddenly being told they can't fly any more. I could see BALPA going right up the wall against the suggestion of introducing any further periodical medical testing that could potentially result in the exclusion of its members from the flight deck. Then again, maybe BALPA would then join in the argument against the exclusion of CVD persons.
The other issue alluded to above is that of discrimination. The Disability Rights Commission states on its website (and I paraphrase) that the CAA cannot refuse to issue a Class One Medical to a prospective pilot unless it could prove that it affected competence to operate an aircraft safely. The present testing methods (and these lantern machines were built at least 30 years ago) do not, in any way, shape or form, test an individual's competence to fly and therefore cannot be seen to be an objective measuring stick for such competence. In that respect I think the authorities may be on a sticky wicket should someone wish to take them on down this route.
But as for £ 10 each, probably add a couple of 00's.
Yeah, I did a bit more research and my questions are answered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2close
The other issue alluded to above is that of discrimination. The Disability Rights Commission states on its website (and I paraphrase) that the CAA cannot refuse to issue a Class One Medical to a prospective pilot unless it could prove that it affected competence to operate an aircraft safely. The present testing methods (and these lantern machines were built at least 30 years ago) do not, in any way, shape or form, test an individual's competence to fly and therefore cannot be seen to be an objective measuring stick for such competence. In that respect I think the authorities may be on a sticky wicket should someone wish to take them on down this route.
Good point but they could pull the arguement about mis-understanding signals.
Maybe a test on an airfield (the CAA have one on their doorstep...) or a test flight would be more of a guide as to if you would be safe or unsafe to fly. That way you are in operational conditions. And if you can't operate in operational conditions...
Maybe a test on an airfield (the CAA have one on their doorstep...) or a test flight would be more of a guide as to if you would be safe or unsafe to fly. That way you are in operational conditions. And if you can't operate in operational conditions...
Hi ya,
I know there's a test being developed simulating papi/vasi lights. I don't know much more, but i've been told that is something new and very interesting... I'll let you know if I found out more!
Location: Where men are men and the women even hairier!!
Posts: 890
The PAPI simulator is supposed to be a cutting edge bit of kit which has been developed by City University and by all accounts it has been accepted by the UK CAA and the FAA. They're now waiting for City Uni to release it for actual use.
Regarding light signals, this has been one area that I have looked at in my study and I feel it to be of very little, if any, consequence whatsoever to modern aviation. I will precis my findings below:
Firstly, the vast majority of aricraft these days have Comms equipment and thankfully the failure rate is very low (although I have personally experienced radio faiure twice).
An aircraft may not enter an ATZ without permission from ATC. The ATZ, at a minimum is 2 nm in diameter. I have used these lights in flight in daylight and they are (a) very small, (b) not that bright and (c) extremely difficult to discern from even 1 nm away, regardless of colour, even when you know where to look for them, therefore, seeing them from 2 - 2.5 nm away (i.e. outside the ATZ) in daylight is extremely difficult, if not impossible. At night, applying the same rules regarding entering the ATZ, when you would think that the light would be easier to see, in fact it gets lost from 2 - 2.5 nm away amongst (a) light pollution, (b) airport lights and (c) lights from other surrounding buildings and streets.
If an aerodrome does not have ATC and the issue of ATZ entry, circuit joining and landing is down to pilot discretion, of what consequence are light signals? None, apart form indicating to the aircraft that it may not land, for some reason. There are far easier and more identifiable ways of achieving this than firing coloured lights, e.g. placing a big 'X' or even a vehicle on the runway. Before anyone questions what would happen if the pilot didn't see the vehicle (a) what is the pilot doing operating an aircraft in the first place if he can't see a vehicle on the runway and (b) in that case, what guarantees are there that the pilot will see coloured light signals?
Regarding operation of signal guns in the cockpit, if operation of a mobile phone is considered a road safety hazard how can operation of a cumbersome signal gun not be considered a flight safety hazard? Also, it is not a legal requirement to carry coloured signal guns in the cockpit and I personally have never heard of anyone carrying such an instrument. Lastly, if a signal gun of sufficient luminance (to enable it to be seen from the ground) was carried and operated inside the cockpit, the light reflection off the inside of the cockpit perspex would in all probability cause serious impairment to the pilot's adapted night vision, thereby rendering any attempt at landing or continuing to fly extremely hazardous. Therefore, it is my contention that the use of colour signal guns from a closed cockpit should be banned as a flight safety risk.
Lastly, the many variations in colour controlled signals could be replaced by signals that are easier to identify and which mean the same on the ground as in the air. Get rid of all the variations and replace them with 3 different speed / duration flashing (easier to see than colours) lights that translate into GO/CONTINUE, STOP/WAIT, RETURN TO APRON/GO AWAY, e.g. Slow - long pulses for the first one, Medium - medium pulses for the middle one and Rapid - short pulses for the latter, similar to Marker Beacons. Use colours as well to aid the identification process but do not rely on one method of identification only.
I await constructive comments and debate eagerly, particularly those that will help develop the argument.
I fail to see why a CVD pilot is not allowed to fly paying passengers (for a company with an AOC) DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS VFR ?
I asked the question when restrictions were imposed and was told "because commercial pressures might mean that you would fly after sundown" - Nonsense - what if the AOC was for day VFR operations only? what if I might break all of the air navigation order (or is it just because CAA are bloody minded and inflexible)
Next question - why can I not teach on aircraft other than G reg and only in UK airspace?
Answer - because we have got around the JAR rules by issuing a UK JAR license with restrictions so they cannot be automatically accepted by others
But not everyone in the world is JAR you idiots ! and some of them have already said I can fly at night !
So if G on tail no night, If N on tail the night OK ,
Why am I dangerous teaching on a French registered Cessna but not a UK registered one? has it got any bearing on seeing colours? answer No - but our hands are tied bt regulations and this is a bit of a paperwork fudge to get aroung things - you should be grateful ! Well i'm not bloody grateful because you should change the regulations to make them logical, sensible and factual with basis on the condition.
OK to teach in UK but not in Ireland......
What the hell has all of this got to do with a very slight colour perception problem ????
Answer nothing !!!
And the ising on the cake???
UK only aircraft and UK only airspace restrictions can be removed when passing CPL exams OR gaining 700 hours......but I have passed the CPL exams that is why you have issued me this restricted license....ah but thats because you are cvd.....so I waited until I had 700 HOURS AND PAID THE FEE AND THEY REMOVED THE RESTRICTION FROM ONE AREA PAGE OF MY LICENSE BUT NOT ANOTHER ????
This is the same CAA that issued me a night rating aFTER CONVERSION TRAINING FROM faa AND THEN restricted license to night only and wouldn't refund the fee for the night rating
Where else would this nonsense prevail????? Want a test case I am your man !!!!
Can anybody tell if it is possible to downloas a practical colour vision test.
I do not mean Ishihara but a Lanter software program like beyne or HW, anomaloscope etc.
I know that it exists! I saw screenshots on internet pages.
maybe practical is not the right word but I think you know what I mean.
And yes a final solution would be great but if I found the solution I would not be here. But if you got the final solution for us, say it and make a lot of people happy.
I think you must use all the resources that are available. That can be your advantage. I checked the whole internet for a program but the only thing I can find is Ishihara and Farnsworth D15.
UK only aircraft and UK only airspace restrictions can be removed when passing CPL exams OR gaining 700 hours......but I have passed the CPL exams that is why you have issued me this restricted license....ah but thats because you are cvd.....so I waited until I had 700 HOURS AND PAID THE FEE AND THEY REMOVED THE RESTRICTION FROM ONE AREA PAGE OF MY LICENSE BUT NOT ANOTHER ????
Hi unfazed, I've never heard (CAA has never told me) this story about the 700 hours/CPL exam... Any source, please?
I've check the LASORS as well, but there so mention (maybe i need to check again) about us...
As i said many times on this forum, this is a pure discrimination against us... CAA knows very well that our conditions are good for flying... but there are 2 things that i really don't understand:
If we are so UNSAFE as they say, why they let us to fly VFR? they should know that IFR is safer and better than VFR!!!
and best of all... they don't let me fly IFR but i can get the IMC rating?!?!
I did get a UK night rating (when converting my FAA license) so I can get an IR and fly IFR
The joke is that I should not have a night rating (but hey they issued it and it was all legit), so the fact is that I can fly IFR but not at night
What a joke !!! And the fact is that any other CVD who tries to get a night rating from scratch whilst training in UK won't be able to and will be told that they are dangerous at night, will most likely accept that at face value and never know the joy of night flying.
Trouble is once you know that you can fly safely at night you don't take kindly to people telling you that you can't, or that you are a danger.
Trouble is once you know that you can fly safely at night you don't take kindly to people telling you that you can't, or that you are a danger.
YOU'RE RIGHT!!! I've flown at night many times and I never had ANY PROBLEM!! As i said before, CAA knows it... CAA knows very well that CVD pilots (or CP4 pilots) are able to fly SAFELY both at night and day, both VFR and IFR...
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