Eraserhead

I have been around aeroplanes all my 48 year life and was thinking the other day about the number of people I have known who have died in a plane crash, verses all those pilots I have known.
I have included family and friends, work colleagues, mates, anyone I have been personally acquainted with. Over the years I have met hundreds of other pilots, but wouldn't know if they were dead or alive, so they don't count.
Turns out I have known about fifty.
Four of them have died in a crash, all at the controls of a light aircraft.
One in a Tiger Moth in the 50s (my Father).
One in a Dart Kitten in the 60s.
Another in, I think, a Zlin at Seething in the 70s and one crashed into a petrol station near Southend in the mid 80s at night in a King Air 90.
Doesn't seem very good odds, but then my twisted logic suggests that I am now less likely to stuff it in. So I happily roll inverted without a worry.
I am interested to know, is this ratio of living to dead typical? Or am I just unlucky.
You fellow Ppruners who have been around a bit, whats your experience?

Send Clowns

It does seem like stark odds. However although I don't have any close acquaintances who were pilots who have died (I am yet young), I have two that are now brain damaged. One was drunk and fell off a sculpture, one ran into a stationary car on a motorbike, and had a heart attack later in hospital. So in fact it is not in flying that the danger seems to lie, it is in being the type of people who will do dangerous things anyway!

tony draper

Doesn't just apply to pilots, of the eight pals I had in my local, people who used to sit with me and put the world to rights every night, Drapes is the only one still walking the earth.
I was just thinking the other night that I prolly know more dead folks than live now.

Not a subject to dwell on at the begining of new year.
I remember that Irish comedien who's name escapes me at the moment sayin, once you reach 40 not a day goes by without you thinking about death at least once.

eastern wiseguy

just to cheer you up Drapes I was trawling the net for some nice verses and found this ...seems appropriate....what with me 45 and only inevitable decay and death to look forward to




Take me to some high place of heather, rock and ling; scatter my dust and ashes, feed me to the wind. So that I will be part of all you see. The air you are breathing, I'll be part of the curlew's cry and the soaring hawk The blue milkwort and the sundew hung with diamonds. I'll be riding the gentle wind that blows through your hair; reminding you how we shared In the joy of living.

SLF

Yeah, don't think this is restricted to pilots.

Having "reunited" recently, 3 of my class of 26 haven't made it to 47

tony draper

Thank you Mr wiseguy, fine Wordsmithery indeed.
Draper likes this one, sort of traditional,very old it is, could have been penned by the grim reaper himself.

The Lyke-wake Dirge

This ya neet, this ya neet,
Ivvery neet an' all;
Fire an' fleet an' can'le leet,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

When thoo frae hence away art passed
Ivvery neet an' all;
To Whinny-moor thoo cooms at last,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

If ivver thoo gav owther hosen or shoon,
Ivvery neet an' all;
Clap thee doon an' put 'em on,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

Bud if hosen or shoon thoo nivver gav nean,
Ivvery neet an' all;
T' whinnies 'll prick thee sair to t' bean,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

Frae Whinny-moor when thoo mayst pass,
Ivvery neet an' all;
To t' Brig o' Dreead thoo'll coom at last,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

If ivver thoo gav o' thy siller an' gowd,
Ivvery neet an' all;
At t' Brig o' Dreead thoo'll finnd foothod,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

Bud if siller an' gowd thoo nivver gav nean,
Ivvery neet an' all;
Thoo'll doan, doon tum'le towards Hell fleames,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

Frae t' Brig o' Dreead when thoo mayst pass,
Ivvery neet an' all;
To t' fleames o' Hell thoo'll coom at last,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

If ivver thoo gav owther bite or sup,
Ivvery neet an' all;
T' fleames 'll nivver catch thee up,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

Bud if bite or sup thoo nivver gav nean,
Ivvery neet an' all;
T' fleames 'll bon thee sair to t' bean,
An' Christ tak up thy saul.

brockenspectre

or if you are a fatalist "exactly the right time" situations which can happen to anyone, if one's friends indulge in risky sports, including aerobatics and war-bird displays, then it is likely that by a certain age several of them will have died... that is just the price paid for living life fuller than the average joe.

However ... the following poem is one from which I draw comfort for all those whose memory I cherish:


I DID NOT DIE

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there. I do not sleep

I am a thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond's glint on snow

I am the sunlight on ripened grain
I am the gentle autumn's rain

When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
of quiet birds in circled flight
I am the soft stars that shine at night

Do not stand on my grave and cry
I am not there. I did not die

Slasher

In my matriculation year (year 6) in 1977 I was in a class of 38 students. One of the guys kept talley of whos around and where. Interesting to note that out of that original 38 only 14 of us still walk the earth as at Sept 30 2002!

The others bowed out through

* drug overdose - 3 (all heroin-related)

* car/motorbike prangs - 6

* murdered - 2 (shot in both cases)

* blood poisoning - 1

* heart attack - 3

* drowning - 1

* cancer - 4

* electrocution - 1

* brain hemorage - 1

* misadventure - 1 (fell off a cliff he was climbing)

* suicide - 1 (debt-related)

flowman

Crikey Slasher. That sounds like a rough school!
Since about 16 of these deaths could conceivably have been under suspicous circumstances, would you just reassure us that they were nothing to do with you?

ratsarrse

Can't compete with Slasher, but within a year of leaving school there were 7 casualties from my year. 4 all died in the same car accident. 1 was run over by a drunk driver, 1 hung himself, and 1 tripped over, hit his head and died of a haemorrhage shortly afterwards. Thankfully the mortality rate has declined since then otherwise we'd all be dead by now.
I'm obviously not the only one that gets miserable at this time of year...

LGW Vulture

And a Happy New Year to you all!

I'm still trying to get over www.deathclock.com

Anthony Carn

Lost two to flying light aircraft.

Several involved in flying accidents, medium sized commercial stuff strangely, most suffering disability.

Of those I'm not aware of, having lost touch, I'd rather keep it that way. I'll imagine them all leading happy, healthy lives.


brockenspectre -- Many thanks for your poem; superb ! Will hang on to that one. eastern wiseguy ditto -- same beautiful concept!

RIGHT -- let's cheer up for 2003 -- Happy New Year to all !

Shaggy Sheep Driver

Some guys here seem to have witnessed much misfortune. I've been involved in the dangerous end of aviation (small aeroplanes, grass strips, tailwheels, and aerobatics) for well over 20 years. In that time, only four pilots who I knew personally have died - two in the same crash (one was an ex-instructor who had taught me in part of my PPL course). They were trying to aerobat a non-aerobatic aeroplane. Another died in a low level steep turn in a single-seater loaded with camping equipment (stall/spin, maybe aft CG), and one in a banner pick-up accident.

Two work mates died of lung cancer, and only one of them smoked.

A distant aquaintance younger than me (he'd married a girl I knew) died this year of a heart attack following a stroke. A lad at school (many years ago) was killed on a small motorcycle by an articulated lorry.

Apart from older folks (including my dad) that's about it, as far as I know.

SSD

pax anglia

Perhaps slightly tangential to the thread as a whole but not entirely irrelevant...........

I am about to celebrate (?) my 50th birthday and have recently become much more aware of my own mortality. Walking along the row of graves in the churchyard currently being added to, my thoughts have been along the lines of...."knew him, knew her, didn't know him but was in the same class as his twins, he was so-and-so's uncle, she used to work in the Co-Op etc.....". I don't think I have had a more depressing experience in a long time. An acquaintance of mine was killed in a road accident three years ago at the age of fifty and lies buried next to the father of my childhood best mate. Sigh.....

Probably one for the problem page, but how does everyone else cope with middle age?

Flypuppy

Of the people I have known well and called friends I tallied up about 40 people. Of those 5 have died in aviation accidents.
1 in a fast jet
3 in light aircraft/GA accidents
1 as a pax in a BAC 1-11

Other losses are:
1 to cancer
2 to Road Traffic Accidents
1 in a robbery in Africa
1 to suicide

I do sometimes wonder if this is more than average and I am just a jinx.

Well, on that morbid and miserable thought I say good riddance to 2002 and a hearty welcome to 2003.

Wishing all PPRuNers a happy, healthy and peaceful new year.

Binoculars

I must confess to being surprised at the low numbers of aviation fatalities recorded here. A few years ago, a couple of mates in the industry ane I were sitting having a quiet one when the subject of lost friends/acquaintances came up. We all came up with a significant number, mine was 13, since grown to 15. These are people I have known personally and shared a drink with more than once; not necessarily close friends (only two of those). I stress this was only those lost in aviation accidents.

Pax Anglia, I also am approaching 50, and my answer to your question is "not at all", and that's applied since 40. Whoever said life begins at 40 was on a different planet to the one I inhabit.

Davaar

Of those (pilots) whom I knew between my ages 18 and 23, between 30 and 40. Off-hand I recall the names of 23, all with one exception military.

Keef

Getting a bit maudlin for New Years, innit?

Brockenspectre's poem is the "good" one out of an otherwise dire batch that regularly get read out at funerals. I'll refrain from quoting any of the others.

Of my school and college friends, I know of about half a dozen (out of a couple of hundred) who have died.

I didn't personally know any pilots who aren't still with us. Some of my early instructors are now incredibly old...

I've taken the funerals of some good friends, but most were of a good age (80+). The ones that really break me up are the children's funerals. I find those extremely difficult.

A psychiatrist friend of mine (not my personal shrink) suggests this:

If my age = n

Life begins at 10 * ((INT(n/10) + 1)

My mistress' age should be n/2 + 7

"Young" is n-5

"Middle aged" is n+5 but <=50

"Old" is n+20

spittingimage

I have been flying 28 years now and can vividly recall but two fellow fliers no longer with us through aircraft accident. Most sobering - being debriefed by the guy one day and stood by his coffin three days later. He was only 21. RIP Louie. The other was only 27. RIP Mark.

Pilot magazine ran an article a few years back evaluating the risks of aviation and the bad news conclusion arrived at was flying as a pilot is similar in risk to motorcycle racing. The good news was that at my age (57) just living has a higher risk of untimely death than the extra risk occasioned by flying !

I liked the deathclock website ! Seems I am up for it on the day before my 47th wedding anniversary and I bet I get blamed for that too !

Pity it does not say where I will die. Now that really would be worth knowing.

A Happy - and safe - New Year to you all !

Binoculars

Wouldn't lose too much sleep over that one, spittingimage. When this was the subject of another thread not long ago several of us found that we were Dead Men Walking. Personally, I've been dead for 13 years if memory serves correctly.