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Old 13th Aug 2017, 11:16   #1 (permalink)
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When is a terrorist not a terrorist?

When the person is a white, Christian.

Had the car that was deliberately driven towards a crown of demonstrators in Charlottesville yesterday been driven by a Muslim, say migrant, originally from let's say Iran, they would be a terrorist.

Donald Trump appears to be acting in the same way he would had Israel been criticised for something they had done in Gaza which resulted in deaths and injuries to innocent people - refusing to come out and condemn the perpetrator (s) for what they were / are - terrorists. He has to do that, or we need to redefine what a terrorist is, and what constitutes a terrorist act.

Hopefully the FBI are raiding the homes associates of yesterday's "cowardly terrorist" arresting them, and taking their internet enabled devices away for analysis. I'd like to think they are, somehow I doubt they'll be as thorough as they would be had the attacked been Muslim.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 11:29   #2 (permalink)
 
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Give it a few hours and the ewesual suspects will be along to explain how you have misunderstood, that it was all Obama and Clinton's doing, and how these right wingers only kill people out of love and tolerance (because only lefties hate). Then we'll get the definitive tweet form trumpy mctrumpface informing us that these attacks actually happened in Sweden, and the alleged white supremacists were actually genetically-engineered left-wing islamic extremists.

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Old 13th Aug 2017, 11:35   #3 (permalink)
 
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When is a terrorist not a terrorist?
When they are supporters of, and supported by, the government.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:05   #4 (permalink)
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When they are supporters of, and supported by, the government.
Sounds about right; and given trump's muted response it could be construed that the white supremacists are something along the lines of the Hitler youth / brown shirts or indeed the nationalist supports groups allied to Putin.

Giving tacit support to these groups is a step down a dangerous path.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:19   #5 (permalink)
 
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I think you are over egging it a bit.

The violence was carried out by both sides, they were both fighting each other and pepper spraying each other. The car incident was simply an escalation of existing violence, the anti-fascists were attacking cars and this nutter decided to use his car as a weapon in a confrontation that was already happening.

Its hardly 9/11
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:21   #6 (permalink)
 
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Its hardly 9/11
Not in scale, no (not yet anyway). But it's still Nazi terrorism.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:29   #7 (permalink)
 
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When he is a "freedom fighter" i.e. on your side.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:30   #8 (permalink)
 
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Funny when BLM was supporting execution of Police officers Obama wasn't seeing it as terrorism
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:43   #9 (permalink)
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Funny when BLM was supporting execution of Police officers Obama wasn't seeing it as terrorism
Supporting something is one thing, murdering is entirely different. But he should have condemned it out of hand anyway.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:46   #10 (permalink)
 
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Not in scale, no (not yet anyway). But it's still Nazi terrorism.
Oh get a sense of perspective. The anti-fascists went there looking for violence to stop the march, had they ignored it then nobody would have been hurt.

Both sides are as bad as each other.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:58   #11 (permalink)
 
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Fascists are as "bad" as non-fascists?

Did you really mean that?

Do you see some kind of equivalence there?

Fascism is certainly in the ascendancy in the US right now, but it's been there for a very long time.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 14:01   #12 (permalink)
 
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Fascists are as "bad" as non-fascists?

Did you really mean that?

Do you see some kind of equivalence there?

Fascism is certainly in the ascendancy in the US right now, but it's been there for a very long time.
I said anti-fascists.

Here are your lovely anti-fascists who you support calling for the murder of police officers - you tell me if there is any equivalence.


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Old 13th Aug 2017, 14:31   #13 (permalink)
 
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I don't know whether the terrorist was a fascist or not, but I'm quite certain that if (s)he had been a Muslim then Trump and his supporters would have been calling him/her a terrorist by now.

Because it was a white supremacist attack it gets no condemnation of fascism from Trump et al and that very clear signal is heard loud and clear by the gang leadership:

Quote:
Trump comments were good. He didn’t attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us. So he implied the anti-fascists are haters. There was virtually no counter-signaling of us at all. He said he loves us all. Also refused to answer a question about White Nationalists supporting him. No condemnation at all. When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room. Really, really good. God bless him.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 15:28   #14 (permalink)
 
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When is a terrorist not a terrorist?
when they violate our laws for a cause
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 15:32   #15 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by andytug View Post
When he is a "freedom fighter" i.e. on your side.
Quite right!

An age old saying that often springs to mind these days:

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Thought provoking?

From one who remembers when Nelson Mandella was a terrorist!
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 16:07   #16 (permalink)
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History is always fascinating when people can be bothered to refer to it. Throughout the 1930's the rise of fascism and the Nazis was aided and abetted by false equivalence and blaming the Jews. People either ignored or supported the bigotry and hatred globally, and suddenly 6 million people (mainly Jews) were eradicated and the world was plunged into armed conflict.

Unsurprisingly today, those same mindsets try to equate and conflate different events to justify why they are comfortable with the rise of white nationalism and hate groups. As the Fascists and Nazis once again get comfortable with public displays of hatred and bigotry, others are deflecting and distracting from the reemergence of overt racism. Maybe some of those racists can't quite get over 8 years under a black leader, maybe they were always bigoted and maybe some are just plain old anarchists. Whatever the reason for this hatred, the troubling ones are the apologists and the "both sides are as bad as each other here". That's the real mindset that gets 6 million Jews killed.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 16:12   #17 (permalink)
 
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History is always fascinating when people can be bothered to refer to it. Throughout the 1930's the rise of fascism and the Nazis was aided and abetted by false equivalence and blaming the Jews. People either ignored or supported the bigotry and hatred globally, and suddenly 6 million people (mainly Jews) were eradicated and the world was plunged into armed conflict.

Unsurprisingly today, those same mindsets try to equate and conflate different events to justify why they are comfortable with the rise of white nationalism and hate groups. As the Fascists and Nazis once again get comfortable with public displays of hatred and bigotry, others are deflecting and distracting from the reemergence of overt racism. Maybe some of those racists can't quite get over 8 years under a black leader, maybe they were always bigoted and maybe some are just plain old anarchists. Whatever the reason for this hatred, the troubling ones are the apologists and the "both sides are as bad as each other here". That's the real mindset that gets 6 million Jews killed.
Correct.


We've been watching it for a while now, with both Trump and #brexit. This is the first Nazi terrorist murder which has taken place at a Nazi parade, but it's not the first murder (Jo Cox) and sadly is unlikely to be the last before the fascists are put back in their box, as they will be, this time around.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 16:15   #18 (permalink)
 
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From one who remembers when Nelson Mandella was a terrorist!
He was, and should have faced the rope.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 17:06   #19 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Two's in View Post
History is always fascinating when people can be bothered to refer to it. Throughout the 1930's the rise of fascism and the Nazis was aided and abetted by false equivalence and blaming the Jews. People either ignored or supported the bigotry and hatred globally, and suddenly 6 million people (mainly Jews) were eradicated and the world was plunged into armed conflict.

Unsurprisingly today, those same mindsets try to equate and conflate different events to justify why they are comfortable with the rise of white nationalism and hate groups. As the Fascists and Nazis once again get comfortable with public displays of hatred and bigotry, others are deflecting and distracting from the reemergence of overt racism. Maybe some of those racists can't quite get over 8 years under a black leader, maybe they were always bigoted and maybe some are just plain old anarchists. Whatever the reason for this hatred, the troubling ones are the apologists and the "both sides are as bad as each other here". That's the real mindset that gets 6 million Jews killed.
Why fixate on Jews ?
6 Million Poles died not including Poles killed in Ukrtaine with a Nazi now celebrated by Ukraine.
27 Million Russians died and Russians (Civilian or Military) caught by Nazi's had a 90% mortality rate.

Seemingly the 6 Millions Jews are viewed as the only victims.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 17:15   #20 (permalink)
 
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No looting or arson though from these so called white supremesists ... makes a change in a good old US demo . Btw what's wrong with keeping a statue of gen Robert E Lee It's part of American history as I understand it the mayor wants to keep the statue as it adds " context "
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