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Old 29th Jul 2017, 12:51   #1 (permalink)
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Golden opportunity missed

I feel quite strongly that a golden opportunity for Ireland has been missed.

Leaving the border open between North and South Ireland and putting border controls at the ports and airports (most of which will have them already) would have had a massive and positive effect on the relationship between the North and South of Ireland. Putting border controls, in effect a ‘Trump wall’ between them will only exacerbating the current situation.

The DUP have the current government in a stranglehold and they will resist any relationship between the North and the South, using any opportunity to place obstacles between the two countries because of their extremist anti-Catholic “Orange’ views - views not necessarily shared by other people in the United Kingdom.

What an opportunity missed.

Last edited by funfly; 29th Jul 2017 at 16:03.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 13:15   #2 (permalink)
 
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Last I heard was that it was the ROI PM that wanted a border.

In fact, I see that in the last few days the DUP have said they are opposed to a land border.

btw, UDP ... don't think they exist anymore.

Last edited by Small cog; 29th Jul 2017 at 13:34.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 16:04   #3 (permalink)
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DUP, corrected. I meant, of course, Ian Paisley's lot.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 19:28   #4 (permalink)
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He's dead isn't he?
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 19:36   #5 (permalink)
 
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Ian Paisley Jnr is still very much with us.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 19:41   #6 (permalink)
 
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What ian 'No Surrender' paisley would think of the irish PM I cannot imagine (sorry i cannot spell his proper title) but there is no doubt it is a major problem as no one except the DUP nutters want a border back between N and South. People nowadays commute from homes in the North to work in Dublin everyday. His you broke it you fix it view is going to get a lot of use in other areas too.



Just another one of the tens of thousands of small but extremely awkward detail that Brexit involves that no one mentioned or considered at the time. Just like Amber Rudds immigration impact study being started a year late.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 19:50   #7 (permalink)

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you broke it you fix it
Expressed by my FiL as "qui buggerit mendit". Provenance not known, but possibly comes from the Engineers in the Burma campaign.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 19:51   #8 (permalink)
 
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There is no integration there. Temporary tolerance, don't push it.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 20:20   #9 (permalink)
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PB, the Irish border was an issue from the word go, just one with little public exposure in England. The sea borders are just as significant as they are transparent compared with cross channel.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 20:45   #10 (permalink)
 
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I'm no fan of the DUP, but I think the idea being that they want a border is incorrect. The only person who seems to want a border is the ROI PM, and that would be a sea border which no other party, nor his own MPs, seems to want.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 21:28   #11 (permalink)
 
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I'm no fan of the DUP, but I think the idea being that they want a border is incorrect. The only person who seems to want a border is the ROI PM, and that would be a sea border which no other party, nor his own MPs, seems to want.
WRONG

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0728/893599-brexit/

Irish PMs view.................... you f*****d it up you fix it, its your problem not ours.

Attempting to think that of 400 crossing points across border can be policed by cameras is laughable. British Army, RUC and UDR couldn't do it during troubles with thousands of men available.

If cameras go up I reckon they will be demolished within a week.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 22:15   #12 (permalink)
 
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The DUP want an Irish border insofar they definitely want to remain in the UK and not to be part of a united Ireland.

Post Brexit, they also want the border to remain "invisible" in the sense of no border checkpoints or barriers to movement of people. This is logically impossible if IRL is in the Customs Union and N. IRL is not. Some people think that "smart" tech-based solutions will work so that movement of goods can be traced electronically via "trusted suppliers". What a golden opportunity for the criminal classes of South Armagh and other border regions to expand their business beyond Diesel laundering.

The Irish PM (aka Taoiseach) is pissed off at the massive collateral damage likely to be wrought by Brexit. One way of mitigating this might be something like Customs Union membership for N IRL, with a consequent "border" between it and GB. Total anathema to the DUP of course, but they wanted Brexit.

And the DUP who fear the idea of a united Ireland have supported a measure (Brexit) which is quite likely to hasten that which they fear most. What is not mentioned nearly enough is the likely cost to the Republic of Ireland if they ever have to pony up the huge transfers to keep their Northern neighbours in the style to which they have become accustomed.

All in all a total first-degree ballsup.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 22:42   #13 (permalink)
 
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First of all my credentials - I am a Roman Catholic descended from Irish Catholic ancestors, although I was in fact born in England.

The idea that opposition to the sea border is coming only from rabid anti Catholic DUP members is entirely incorrect. What is being proposed by the Taoiseach is bound to be unacceptable to a large proportion of the Northern Irish population, who as UK citizens would be asked to show their passports and undergo border controls to enter another part of their own country. Would the inhabitants of Kent find it acceptable to have to go through border controls at the Surrey border?

Incidentally there are already several land borders between EU and non EU countries. Norway - Sweden is the obvious example, as are the frontiers between Switzerland and Austria, France, Germany and Italy. They all seem to work ok without being hermetically sealed, why not one between the North and the South in Ireland?
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 09:04   #14 (permalink)
 
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Racedo

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WRONG
The Irish PM changed his tack just 24 hours after comment that he wanted a sea border. No doubt after pressure from his MPs as noted in my post. Perhaps he needs a Twitter account?
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 09:14   #15 (permalink)
 
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Just to throw another UK/EU border issue into the mix, currently there are minimal border controls between the UK and the Channel Islands, yet the Channel Islands are not in the EU.

So, if we can make the UK/Channel Islands "border" work with minimal hassle, why can't we do the same for the border with the RoI?

After all, like the Channel Islands, the RoI is within the Common Travel Area - nothing to do with the EU, as UK/Irish/Channel Islands/Isle of Man have always had free travel, with no need for passports etc. Part of my family lives in Ireland still, and even before the UK joined the EEC (then the EU) there was never a requirement to have a passport to travel to Ireland, nor a need for anyone from Ireland to have one when coming to the UK.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 10:35   #16 (permalink)
 
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ROI should leave the EU along with us. Problem solved.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 12:26   #17 (permalink)
 
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 13:11   #18 (permalink)
 
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ROI should leave the EU along with us. Problem solved.
Right so Irish would then be subject to what London spivs want.................. In Ireland quite a few times this year and not come across anybody interested in leaving EU.

UK economic growth has dived since Brexit, Inflation has jumped in and jobs have left......................
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 14:34   #19 (permalink)
 
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Right so Irish would then be subject to what London spivs want..................
And is that worse than what Brussels spivs want? And why would they be 'subject' to "London spivs"? They weren't subject to "London spivs" in all those years since their independence and before the existence of the EU, were they? I don't quite follow any logic in your comment.
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Old 30th Jul 2017, 14:48   #20 (permalink)
 
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And is that worse than what Brussels spivs want? And why would they be 'subject' to "London spivs"? They weren't subject to "London spivs" in all those years since their independence and before the existence of the EU, were they? I don't quite follow any logic in your comment.
In the view of Irish people Brussels leaves them alone, joining the EU has helped Ireland massively and there is no appetite in any way shape or forward to leave.

As for not being subject to London spivs since independence................. UK looked at imposing Economic sanctions when Aer Lingus started flying transatlantic from Ireland, Irish people just look at Northern Ireland and what happened there and how PM May is in hock to Paisley's party who still chain up the swings so kids can't use children's playground on the sabbath.

Little Englanders voted for Brexit because they didn't like the EU Foreigners......... Irish are in that category as well.

EU clear in supporting Ireland becasue an open land border is one of the key issues.
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