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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 20:16   #81 (permalink)
 
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From one film critic...
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Brian Truitt (USA Today film critic) lamented the film's lack of diversity claiming 'the fact that there are only a couple of women and no lead actors of colour may rub some the wrong way'.
He has now been criticised on Twitter with one user joking: 'Historical accuracy... how dare they!"
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 20:38   #82 (permalink)
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MR, just like the first film really though they did have the little woman at home when hubby went off in his little boat.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 00:01   #83 (permalink)
 
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Hope to see it this week but I have to agree about the comments regarding clean uniforms and fresh shaves.

When the Ux and I go to the cinema we do not go to pick nits but rather be entertained. With that however, it has always annoyed me that so often you see characters who are in the most difficult situations looking pretty freshly shaven and in decent fettle. Not always of course, but all too often.

Go anywhere where the dewpoint is high and one is drenched in sweat just standing there. In the movies though one might be walking around in spiffy military kit or mufti with nary a bead on the old bean. All the more remarkable in days before widespread antiperspirant use. Plus are the gents shaving every few hours?

One of the critics wryly mentioned that apart from the impending disaster for the forces reaching the mole, the Regimental laundry service was apparently still in very good working order as the lads seemed to be decently kitted out. By golly doom is impending but your uniform is crisp.

The realism is not that hard Mr. or Mrs. Director. Just go to any airport's customs and immigration line and you can pull out hundreds of bleary-eyed passengers and crew who would not even need make-up to fit the role.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 02:44   #84 (permalink)
 
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“Anglo-Saxon history has an unfortunate habit of playing up the armed feats of the British and passing those of the French army in silence.”
Strange really, my father was involved in a skirmish with German paratroopers during his retreat from Reims to Brest, and was responsible for the demise of most of them. I presume some French forces were with his unit, as FOUR years later he was tracked down by the French authorities and decorated with the Croix de Guerre for his actions on that day.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 06:11   #85 (permalink)
 
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To be fair about the shaving, not a lot of 18 year olds have more than three hairs on their chins anyway. The casting was good in that way, they were all very young.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 06:20   #86 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
I hope you are not suggesting that they should destroy a precious Spitfire just to make a movie more realistic
What a horrible thought and no never my intention to suggest. I should have included a suggestion of an old truck engine or something that might pass as a RR Merlin as that was what I was thinking as part of the mock up structure to burn.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 08:02   #87 (permalink)
 
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It was a relevant observation. While I didn't actually have the idea at the time I do recall thinking that the Spit looked a bit empty up front. The gliding scene I thought was artistic licence rather than error. The whole subtext of the film was about time.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 08:48   #88 (permalink)
 
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I have just seen an image of what I presume is a publicity poster for the film, issued by Warner Bros. A trio of soldiers sat alone on a beach in clean uniforms and with the cranes of Dunkirk's container port in the background!
I have also read to day of a US film critic who panned the film for not having enough women or "persons of colour". And apparently the Frogs are outraged that film doesn't give them an equal billing. This from the nation that decided to defend the Ardennes region with some below par reservists and horse mounted cavalry thus ensuring an easy passage for the other lot and completely exposing the British right flank.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 08:52   #89 (permalink)
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Generally speaking modern film producers seem to get the proper contemporary kit, especially vehicles. In UK especially re-enactor groups have gathered large quantities of proper kit. One group recently had new wooden ration boxes with authentic markings - better than 70 year old originals.

US kit seems very plentiful. RAF uniforms seem rarer.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 10:22   #90 (permalink)
 
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KD,

Memory serves me the other lot did the same again in December 1944 but did so against the Brits and American Armies with all their modern kit.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 11:39   #91 (permalink)
 
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Spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler

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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
unlike Eclan I thoroughly enjoyed the flying scenes, especially the in-cockpit shots that were superbly shot and gave a real sense of just how hard combat flying must have been.
You're right, the cockpit scenes were very good. But it was let down by, for example, Farrier (Hardy) rolling and yawing endlessly (and pointlessly) back and forth trying for a shot behind a Heinkel which was flying straight and level. Could they not have found a single fighter pilot to ask for advice in the interests of realism? To be fair, he had his goggles up so high he probably couldn't see what he was shooting at.

The almost endless glide was ridiculous but shooting down the diving Stuka along the way???? And why didn't he just land next to the thousands of troops instead of miles away where the jerries were??

I also noticed the motorless airframe in the finale but assumed the donk had fallen out earlier due to the way the propeller was slowly but smoothly turning, like a fan, as he made his not one but two epic glide-pasts of the beach at what looked like about 400 knots.

Very disappointing artistic crap. 1 out of 5 (for not using CGI).

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Originally Posted by JDJ View Post
The volume level is the responsibility of the cinema/theatre - all major films are mixed to standard levels these days.
Not true. This was filmed with IMAX cameras which produce a lot of noise. Apparently the continuous (as in non stop), ear-splitting, mind-numbing dramatic score was partly to deal with this issue.

I hope they redesigned those non-float life preservers which let some of the tommies sink.

Last edited by Eclan; 24th Jul 2017 at 11:50.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 11:54   #92 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
But it was let down by, for example, Farrier (Hardy) rolling and yawing endlessly (and pointlessly) back and forth trying for a shot behind a Heinkel which was flying straight and level.
Possibly to dodge fire coming back from the Heinkel?
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:16   #93 (permalink)
 
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Possibly to dodge fire coming back from the Heinkel?
Yes, good point... maybe so... but probably giving Nolan a bit too much credit given tbe rest of it.
Plenty of groans around every time the 111 (and the 109) sailed through the gunsight and he fired lag not lead.
Anyway I'm glad some people enjoyed it. Seems to be doing alright at the box office. Take earplugs...

Last edited by Eclan; 24th Jul 2017 at 13:38.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 14:19   #94 (permalink)

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This from the nation that decided to defend the Ardennes region with some below par reservists
Er, something similar was to occur just over four years later!!
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 15:24   #95 (permalink)
 
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angels: Indeed something similar did happen in 1944. The difference being that in 1940, the whole thing was under the command of a French General and in 1944 under the command of a US General. I think one could be excused for thinking the US General could have learned the lessons from 4 years earlier.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 15:27   #96 (permalink)
 
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angels:
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The Wormhoudt massacre was their worst atrocity
Here is a couple of photos of the site; one showing the rebuilt barn and the other with a plaque explaining what the SS did.
Ship Photos, Container ships, tankers, cruise ships, bulkers, tugs etc
Ship Photos, Container ships, tankers, cruise ships, bulkers, tugs etc
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 16:25   #97 (permalink)
 
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The Germans deserve some credit here folks....they outsmarted the Allied Armies twice in the Ardennes...in '40 and again in '44.

They obtained Tactical surprise and seized the initiative from the defending forces each time achieving a superiority in firepower and force strength. In '44 they made good use of inclement weather to facilitate their buildup and preparations for the attack.

The first time they had some logistics issues....and in the second attempt they failed to properly supply their forces and lost every advantage they had once the weather cleared and the defending forces were able to contain their advance.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 16:47   #98 (permalink)
 
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So, logistics issues both times.
The second attempt was a "hail Mary" play out of desperation and was doomed from the start. You can't control the weather and you can't whistle up petrol or diesel or air superiority out of thin air. And then there was Patton.
So, no credit to the Germans. They lost.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 17:02   #99 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The Germans deserve some credit here folks....they outsmarted the Allied Armies twice in the Ardennes...in '40 and again in '44.

The first time they had some logistics issues....and in the second attempt they failed to properly supply their forces and lost every advantage they had once the weather cleared and the defending forces were able to contain their advance.
I very much doubt if logistics would have helped in the latter case. By the end of 1944 the imbalance of air power was absolute and without some kind of air support the ground forces would have simply been pulverised.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 18:13   #100 (permalink)

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The second attempt was a "hail Mary" play out of desperation and was doomed from the start.
Absolutely. The Generals knew it was madness from the word go but no-one was going to tell the nutcase in charge that.

I've pottered around the Ardennes as well and the situation was incredibly complex. But the plan was always doomed to failure. The aim was to get to Antwerp -- they didn't even get to the Meuse.
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