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Old 20th Jul 2017, 21:26   #21 (permalink)
 
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The first time I watched the invasion scene in Saving Private Ryan I literally thought I was going to throw up. Probably the most powerful 20 minutes of cinema I've ever sat through.

The rest of the movie was ok, but had Spielberg made the entire movie as gut wrenching and 'real' as he did Omaha Beach it would have been impossible to sit all the way through it. Perhaps why Dunkirk has been 'softened'.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 21:47   #22 (permalink)
 
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Dambusters...I wonder what PC name they will give the dog?
It was over-dubbed "Trigger" in the US version of the 1954 film

Recently muted in CH4's broadcast.



I've conducted several quiz nights on picture rounds before now (also attended by US Mil)
1st round was pics of aircraft, most thought one answer was the Wright Flyer 1903, but pic was actually the Cayley Governable Parachute of 1853!

Next round was "Dead Animals"
Keiko (played Free Willy)
Greyfriar's Bobby
Blue Peter's Shep
Hercules (the drowned Scottish Bear)
etc etc
...and Some Railings outside a Hangar?

No one batted an eyelid when I gave the correct answer, not even the Afro-Americans!
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 23:08   #23 (permalink)
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Hear hear! A great book by a totally under-rated author IMHO.
Me too. Dambusters and BoB have been done and are a classics.

Bomber would be fantastic. I've got the Beeb recording, haven't actually listened to it yet.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 23:16   #24 (permalink)
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Memphis Belle was a good story and for its time (pre CGI) was very realistic.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 00:03   #25 (permalink)
 
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Please please please let this thread not be hijacked by yet another load of references to Gibson's bloody dog's name - the subject has been done to death numerous times before.

Back to Dunkirk it will have to go some to beat the original. John Mills doing his cheeky cockney corporal act (as opposed to his posh officer one) was brilliant, as was Richard Attenborough as the reluctant small boat skipper.

The main criticism of the present film seems to be that it reinforces the fallacy that the majority of troops were saved by the "little ships" when in fact something like 5% is nearer the truth, Then again, given the director's reluctance to use cgi and the understandable lack of WW2 warships available for filming, it was probably inevitable that he would concentrate on the small craft side of the story.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 00:32   #26 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for spoiling it gents. Here I was all primed to go see it within the next week or so and you go ruining the ending by saying they got the lads off the beach!

Probably worth seeing but at least warn us next time with a spoiler alert
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 01:10   #27 (permalink)
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Thanks for spoiling it gents. Here I was all primed to go see it within the next week or so and you go ruining the ending by saying they got the lads off the beach!

Probably worth seeing but at least warn us next time with a spoiler alert
Spoiler alert... You're going to be disappointed...just softening the blow
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 02:42   #28 (permalink)
 
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Wow - Ridley Scott doing Battle of Britain!
That'll be something to look forward to.
He'll have very high expectations to meet.
Not the very least - a recreation of that famous shot that so often features here...
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 04:11   #29 (permalink)
 
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My late father was in France, with the RAF, when the Germans invaded. He was based near Reims, and it took them nearly a month to traverse the country to get to Brest. He mentioned bathing in a river - once. This was the other evacuation - Operation Ariel. The closest they could get to the port was about 4 miles to the south. He jumped into the water and was eventually picked up about 6 hours later, and made it back to Plymouth.
His diary, though perfunctory, makes rather sober reading. His occasional recollections were rather upsetting for both narrator and listener. His nightmares even more so.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 05:19   #30 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by unclenelli View Post
Hercules (the drowned Scottish Bear)
Hercules died of old age related causes.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 06:27   #31 (permalink)
 
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"Dambusters...I wonder what PC name they will give the dog?"

Maybe the same as 617 Sqns formation callsign? Black Dog!
Can't use "Black" these days...

Would have to be "Dog of Colour"
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 07:32   #32 (permalink)
 
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Technically "black" and "white" are not colours. So it's all nonsensical.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 07:47   #33 (permalink)
 
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Just watched the Channel 5 documentary on Dunkirk. The crew finally had access to the RAF records and, far from the Army and Navy perception of "where were the RAF" the reality was that they were attacking the German bombers before they got to the coast knocking down around 240 Luftwaffe aircraft for the loss of 177 RAF and Fleet Air Arm aircraft.

I hadn't realized that 200,000 of the 340,000 soldiers rescued were actually taken off the Mole rather than the beaches themselves. Also that the Army rather cleverly made piers out of rows of trucks driven onto the beach at low tide.
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 10:00   #34 (permalink)
 
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Some years ago I was lucky enough to be able to buy a very scarce group of medals headed by the Distinguished Service Medal and bar. The recipient was a Leading Seaman on one of the many naval warships sent to rescue the army from Dunkirk. He was put in charge of one of the ship's boats which made many return trips to the beach to transfer soldiers to the ship and he was awarded the DSM for this action. Two weeks later the same ship found itself at St Valery, near Dieppe, this time attempting to evacuate the 51st Highland Division. Once again our man was put in charge of one of the boats which rowed inshore to attempt to take off troops. St Valery was an entirely different proposition, however, and the boats came under fire from high ground, several were lost and the remainder were forced to withdraw. For this action he received a bar to his DSM, possibly the fastest double DSM of the war. The 51st Division were eventually forced to surrender and spent the whole war as POWs,
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Old 21st Jul 2017, 16:46   #35 (permalink)
 
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Would have to be "Dog of Colour"
To be PC safe, one could call it a "Non-reflective dog".
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 00:55   #36 (permalink)
 
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Ah but then you would be accused of using a "Dog Whistle" by such language.

Quote:
Also that the Army rather cleverly made piers out of rows of trucks driven onto the beach at low tide.

Now if their employment of the BEF had been as clever.

Flank security seems to work better if done in-house.

It was a moment in history where common men and women showed uncommon courage to be sure.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 04:12   #37 (permalink)
 
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A rather interesting take on the filming of the aerial aspects of the film:
Dogfighting Over ?Dunkirk? | Daily Planet | Air & Space Magazine


First time I saw "Battle of Britain" in the theater (I would have been about 14 at the time), I was somewhat disappointed at some of the special effects ("CGI" is probably inappropriate - I seriously doubt any computers were involved). But watching it now, I appreciate the use of reasonably accurate period aircraft (especially in the flying scenes), along with some wonder at all those life size replicas that were blown up filming the ground attack scenes. I've also become more appreciative of the value of using accurate (or at least accurate looking) hardware in WW II films (I still get a giggle when I watch the movie Patton - great movie BTW - where the German tanks appear to actually be M46 Patton tanks).
While I have a pretty high opinion of Scott as a film director, it's going to be a tall order for him to replicate the accuracy of the original Battle of Britain film...
BTW, what happened to all those "German" aircraft that were used in the 1969 Battle of Britain film? By 1969 their collector value was becoming clear enough that they shouldn't have been scrapped...
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 06:06   #38 (permalink)
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Diddums. Perhaps they could make their own film about Dunkirk, or perhaps about Napoleon's victory at Waterloo?

French furious at being written out of Dunkirk film epic

The film Dunkirk is under attack in France for glorifying British prowess while neglecting French troops whose sacrifice made the epic evacuation possible. Historians and critics have voiced annoyance over what they see as Christopher Nolan’s rewriting of the defeat of Allied forces in which 30,000 French troops held off Nazi divisions near Lille in the late spring of 1940 to protect Operation Dynamo in the Channel.......

The Dunkirk retreat is not taught in schools in France and is largely unknown, so reviewers there are recounting the event and explaining its role in the modern British mentality through the prism of Brexit. The newspaper Libération called Dunkirk a “founding episode in European history” adding: “The Dunkirk spirit has lived on since the war as a strong marker of the English patriotic psyche, the feeling that in coming home, escaping the bad fates of the continent, English soldiers could reconquer their strength to resist.”

The main complaint springs from the brushing out of the French role in Nolan’s film, except for a few brief scenes. “This vibrant homage to the British Army and people avoids the suffering of the French soldiers who, after protecting the British retreat, watched the last boats sail away. They were heading for the night of the occupation,” said Les Echos, a business newspaper.

As Dunkirk opened in France on Wednesday, Dominique Lormier, a Second World War historian, said: “Anglo-Saxon history has an unfortunate habit of playing up the armed feats of the British and passing those of the French army in silence.” Operation Dynamo succeeded “thanks to the sacrifice of the French army which prevented 200,000 enemy soldiers penetrating the pocket of Allied resistance at Dunkirk and decimating the British Army”, he told the Huffington Post’s French site.

The harshest review came from Le Monde, which talked of the “scathing rudeness, deplorable indifference” of Nolan towards France. Only a dozen seconds were devoted to a group of French soldiers defending the city of Lille and a few more to a French soldier disguised as British trying to flee, wrote Jacques Mandelbaum, Le Monde’s critic. “Where in the film are the 120,000 French soldiers who were also evacuated from Dunkirk? Where are the 40,000 who sacrificed themselves to defend the city against a superior enemy in weaponry and numbers?”

Historians recall that Winston Churchill and his commanders lavished praise on the French. Churchill wrote afterwards that “the heroic resistance of the French army saved the British and allowed them to continue the war”.

French propaganda under the Vichy puppet regime ensured that the Channel evacuation became largely unknown, Patrick Oddone, head of the Dunkirk Society of History and Archeology, said. “The operation has disappeared from French school books because the spirit of Vichy still suffuses these events,” he said. “You could find propaganda pictures with English soldiers using their rifle butts to hit French soldiers trying to scramble aboard boats. These images remained in the collective French memory.” French Anglophobia was still fed by the idea “that the English abandoned the French”, he added.

British historians said film-makers had a right to interpret history. Sir Max Hastings, a Churchill biographer, said: “Nolan’s film is as shamelessly British as many of Steven Spielberg’s are shamelessly American. The French will have to make their own film if they want their national story properly told.”
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 06:23   #39 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Historians recall that Winston Churchill and his commanders lavished praise on the French. Churchill wrote afterwards that “the heroic resistance of the French army saved the British and allowed them to continue the war”.
Churchill was no paragon when it came to revising history. The Soviet army barely gets a look in his history of the second world war. Yet a visit to any German graveyard will reveal that most German casualties were on the eastern front.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 06:37   #40 (permalink)
 
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In case it has escaped anyone's notice, it is a revenue seeking film made for entertainment, not a documentary.
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