PPRuNe Forums


Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th Jul 2017, 11:49   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 236
During my time in E Africa there seemed =no doubt at all that things were vastly better in the colonial era for both black and white, indeed many black locals specifically told us that things were better under British rule and some even asked us to tell the Queen to come back! - which isn't the picture the revisionists and PC mongs would like us to believe.
Almost everyone prefers stability, relative prosperity and peace to chaos and violence. Sadly much of Africa hasn't had a very good track record of maintaining that since colonial help was removed although the Chinese have stepped in now - and they do rape the place in a mannner far more systematic than the old colonials ever did(n't).
Funny though how no-one ever seems to condemn them for the "crimes" of colonialism yet plenty rant on endlessly about what we did. Self-flagellation is sadly an all to popular sport in our strange, history-blind modern society.
noflynomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 14:54   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,338
White rulers had the sense to make sure the locals had full stomachs, not for altruistic reasons, it was done to prevent social unrest. Food was available and price controls we're enforced on basic staple items such as bread and milk. Sure the locals weren't rich but they weren't starving. Enough wealth was being generated to afford price controls and subsidies for lower income earners while the ruling class enjoyed their mansions and Mercedes.

Education for Africans was basic and limited to qualifying them for lower level employment. After independence, money was poured into education, it was the largest expense in the national Budget in the early days, even exceeding defence. Unfortunately the jobs to match rising expectations didn't appear in the massive numbers required to absorb those leaving school or university. Telling someone with "A" levels or a degree to get a job as a farm labourer or general hand didn't work out very well.

A competent, racist, white elite has been replaced with an incompetent, racist, black elite and now there is no money left to pacify the masses with.
Metro man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 15:48   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 236
Our colonial administrators were racist, were they?
What a vile and baseless accusation made with all the unthinking self-righteousness of the revisionist.
How could they be? Neither the term Racist not the concept surrounding it even existed throughout all but the very last Colonial days - racism is a very modern construct and it is manifestly unfair to accuse people in history of misdoings defined by todays standards when no such thing existed in their time.

If you want to see racism go listen to what the Chinese say about Africans, and the way they treat them. Mind you, go see the way Africans treat other Africans too, after all tribalism is no more nor less than racism.

As are the grudges and ill-will among certain strata of British society to do with class...

Last edited by noflynomore; 16th Jul 2017 at 16:17.
noflynomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 15:49   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,588
I was at RAF Heany, near Bulawayo, as a child when my father was in the RAF. When my father retired he went out there and I ended up at Heany again; this time called Llewellen Barracks to do my National Service.

There were a couple of aircraft hangers there and they were being used to store surplus maize by the Rhodesian Agricultural Ministry. The idea was to have a Biblical seven years reserve in case of barren years.

Within a year of Independence the whole lot had been sold, outside the country, for US $.

Not hard to guess where the money went.
Fareastdriver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 16:18   #25 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 643
I was in Nigeria at the time the "Roots" book first came out and met loads of black Americans arriving from the States claiming they were 'African'. Didn't take any of them long to change their tune and claim to be 'American'.
funfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 16:25   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 236
Asian businessman invites African businessman to his home in India. African is impressed at the mansion with pool, tennis court and a couple of mercs in the drive. "How did you do that?" he asked. The indian smiled, pointed at a new highway in the distance and said "Two percent!"

Years later the African returned the compliment. The Asian was gobsmacked at the palace in a park carved out of the bush; lakes, three infinity pools, tennis, squash, gym, cinema, helipad and a fleet of chauffeur driven Cadillacs, mercs and top end beemers.
"How did you do that?" he asked in astonishment.
His African buddy waved vaguely at the empty virgin bush and said, "See that superhighway there?"
"?????"
"One hundred percent!"
noflynomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 16:37   #27 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 643
People joke about the corruption in Africa and nowadays many don't realise how bad it used to be (and maybe still is). Forgetting the petty 'dash' that was used to ease business life, the amounts of cash that went to people in senior positions was unbelievable. Many I dealt with had houses in London and Geneva and bank accounts with a number that they would slip to you if you wanted a contract to be considered. Even World Bank loans contained a percentage to be allocated for bribes.
One of the reasons that I finished this sort of work was the ease of getting dragged into the mud yourself (and the temptation) and I was aware other UK people who took advantage of this easy and untraceable money.
funfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 17:38   #28 (permalink)

Plastic PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1,806
"Education for Africans was basic and limited to qualifying them for lower level employment."

Hmm... That must have been why most of my father's medical lab staff (1950's) were Black Nigerians. They took on anyone who could read, write and add-up & trained them up.

Mac
Mac the Knife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 20:03   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 67
Posts: 1,110
"Bantu Education" ring a bell Mac????
Haraka is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 20:38   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,588
Quote:
Education for Africans was basic and limited to qualifying them for lower level employment
Rhodesia had the highest, after South Africa, standard of native education in Africa. Large scale farmers would not only build villages for their workers but also schools and provide for medical care.

The University of Rhodesia and Nyasaland was multi-racial at its concept. After Independence it got a reputation for issuing dodgy degrees to the Government's friends.
Fareastdriver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jul 2017, 22:05   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
Age: 70
Posts: 1,235
Quote:
After Independence it got a reputation for issuing dodgy degrees to the Government's friends.
Looking at the standard of radio knowledge of many of the African delegates to ITU Study Group 1, I can well believe it. One told me that we shouldn't bother with amateur radio requirements 'because it's a rich white man's hobby'. His hobby was negotiating with and accompanying the "professional ladies" in the area around the Rue du Berne in Geneva every night - I saw him because you had to go that way to get to the "Grand Duke" for an expensive glass of Boddingtons!
radeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Jul 2017, 01:32   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,338
Taken from The Economist 7 Jan 2017

Quote:
The Bantu Education Act of 1953 set out to ensure that whites received a better education than blacks, who were, according to Hendrik Verwoerd, the future prime minister then in charge of education, to be educated only enough to be “hewers of wood and drawers of water”. Black pupils received about a fifth of the funding of white peers. They were taught almost no maths or science.
So according to Fareastdriver Rhodesia was second to this.

Zimbabwe kept going reasonably well in the early years after independence because Rhodesia had laid good foundations and many whites remained. Mugabe had enough sense not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

The wheels really came off when he couldn't deliver on the promises he made during the war. ZANLA guerrillas didn't seem to be able to work out that there weren't enough white owned farms for them to have one each like they were promised. When Mugabe granted them pensions, the currency collapsed as there was no way the government could afford to pay. Then the farm invasions started and the rest of the economy followed the Zimbabwe dollar into a downward spiral.

It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Metro man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Jul 2017, 11:11   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 32
Someone I met in a pub told me that some unpatriotic cabin crew put cancer causing chemicals in the food and drink of white Air Rhodesia/ Air Zimbabwe crew. We don't want to believe that.
Bueno Hombre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Jul 2017, 12:14   #34 (permalink)
ZFT
N4790P
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 67
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueno Hombre View Post
Someone I met in a pub told me that some unpatriotic cabin crew put cancer causing chemicals in the food and drink of white Air Rhodesia/ Air Zimbabwe crew. We don't want to believe that.
Most likely friends of the same people that shot down the Viscount then murdered the survivors. Bastards every one of them.
ZFT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Jul 2017, 14:01   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 654
In the 1990s

Some amazing flying. The comments are worth reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlxDpJPo4kM


(Sorry for the thread drift and aviation content! )
Ken Borough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Jul 2017, 01:13   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,260
Many former Rhodesian Air Force pilots ended up in a ME country that was happy to use their services. In the mid-80's they were all informed that their Rhodesian passports were no longer valid, and that they should be exchanged for Zimbabwe passports. There were a number who sent their original passports, but never received any document in exchange ... instant statelessness.
reynoldsno1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Jul 2017, 02:16   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,338
Oman also decided not to use the services of those born in a communist country. Zimbabwe met their definition and many had their contracts terminated because of this.
Metro man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Jul 2017, 03:33   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZFT View Post
Most likely friends of the same people that shot down the Viscount then murdered the survivors. Bastards every one of them.
I recall that they tortured the injured 21 year old stewardess for an hour before finally bayoneting her to death, witnesses hiding in the jungle heard them giggling as they did it.

There is also the question of British sabotage. Rhodesian Air Force Canberras were found to have rubber hoses in the fuel and engine systems that had been carefully cut around their circumference most likely with Stanley knives, in a way that would cause them to fail but only in flight. Percival Provosts had ball bearings dropped into their crankcase that banged around until they eventually punched through the casing - again likely to happen while in flight. Of course it could have been the locals, but it was generally accepted by the Rhodesians that the sabotage was far too technical for anyone but aircraft technicians to perpetrate, and many of their maintainers were ex-RAF and believed to be under instructions from a 3 letter agency back in the UK. No one was ever caught.

All in all a sickening tale that still lives a stench in the nostrils of many to this day, me included.
Fonsini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 18:08   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mobile
Posts: 241
SASless

Quote:
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Ages ago.....my Cousin tried to convince me to partner with him in a Tobacco Farm in Rhodesia.

We did some research and decided the situation was not looking very good long term.

I almost wound up flying helicopters for the Rhodesian Air Force....and have always regretted not accepting the offered position as they seemed to be very serious in how they went about business.

No telling how that would have turned out.
You should have gone SASless, you would hve fitted in with no problem!!
mtoroshanga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Jul 2017, 08:27   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Yes.
Posts: 102
Of great concern to me is, almost every polition was screaming for Ian Smith's head and to get him overthrown. They pushed for that ape with the collar to get to power. All these politions backed the wrong horse. Have those politions ever put their hands up and said they screwed up? Did they f***!!
I was in Rhodesia in the mid '70's. I can tell you the place was in much better shape than it is now. Remember there was UDI, civil war and all the rest of it then now look at the shambles after Billions have been put into it since 1980. Politicians? I say line most of them up against a wall.
Dan_Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 13:28.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1