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Old 14th Jun 2017, 12:23   #41 (permalink)
 
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Cllr Nick Paget-Brown, the leader of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, visited the site in May and said:

“It is remarkable to see first-hand how the cladding has lifted the external appearance of the tower and how the improvements inside people’s homes will make a big difference to their day-to-day lives”
It did, but probably not in the way he meant.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 12:43   #42 (permalink)
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A baby was caught by a member of the public after being dropped from a window as fire engulfed London's Grenfell Tower, a witness has said.
Samira Lamrani said she saw a woman gesturing to the crowd below that she was about to drop her baby from "the ninth or 10th floor" of the building.
A man ran forward and managed to catch the baby, she said.
Ms Lamrani told the Press Association: "People were starting to appear at the windows, frantically banging and screaming.
"The windows were slightly ajar - a woman was gesturing that she was about to throw her baby and if somebody could catch her baby.
"Somebody did, a gentleman ran forward and managed to grab the baby."
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 13:37   #43 (permalink)
 
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And in a failed vote to make all rented accomodation 'habitable', 72 MPs who voted against were landlords. Not relevant here maybe, but it won't play well if it's pushed.

CG
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 14:22   #44 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
"Somebody did, a gentleman ran forward and managed to grab the baby."
If this turns out to be an accurate story then said gentleman will not be paying for his own drinks anytime soon.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 14:25   #45 (permalink)
 
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Catch a baby dropped from 10th floor? Some man!
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 15:53   #46 (permalink)
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...interesting that my link in the first post shows a 404 now...

http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-to...ation-project/

...but if you cut the link into ggle you can get the cache if you're quick...I made a copy last night just in case...will share if you that curious..
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 16:02   #47 (permalink)
 
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It's in the archive.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 16:10   #48 (permalink)
 
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If the cause was a fridge. The lawyers are going to get rich,that assumes nothing of interest was being stored in it. Ah Hem !
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 16:14   #49 (permalink)
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Fire Chief in current briefing has stated one of the main hazards they had to deal with in the building was a fractured gas main.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 17:02   #50 (permalink)
 
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Been watching this tragic situation covered on Sky today. My gawd.

Not sure why, but the legendary series, "Our Friends in the North," keeps going through my head. Remembering the storyline about the flats and how they were built. Probably not applicable here at all, but it just me think of OFITN.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 17:28   #51 (permalink)
 
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An explanation of the principle behind the 'stay inside until you are told to get out' advice given to the residents. It seems it only makes some sense if the building can contain the fire. In this case, as others have posted, the fire appears to have spread rapidly up the outside of the building.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40273715
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 17:31   #52 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
A baby was caught by a member of the public after being dropped from a window as fire engulfed London's Grenfell Tower, a witness has said.
Samira Lamrani said she saw a woman gesturing to the crowd below that she was about to drop her baby from "the ninth or 10th floor" of the building.
A man ran forward and managed to catch the baby, she said.
Ms Lamrani told the Press Association: "People were starting to appear at the windows, frantically banging and screaming.
"The windows were slightly ajar - a woman was gesturing that she was about to throw her baby and if somebody could catch her baby.
"Somebody did, a gentleman ran forward and managed to grab the baby."
What a man to catch the baby AND to be bold enough to attempt it. What a memory to live with if he'd failed.

It puts me in mind of the Robert Heinlein story, 'Time Enough for Love'.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 20:28   #53 (permalink)
 
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The bravery, efficency and professionalism of our emergency services in this incident, the London Bridge terrorism act and many other incidents is beyond description.

God bless all of you.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 21:13   #54 (permalink)
 
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Further to my earlier post, firemen were slightly injured.

The LFB aerial appliances are indeed on the short side compared to other cities. You'll see from video that they could not push water to the upper floors.
Newer platforms that are far taller are same folded dimensions or a meter or so longer.

Having said that, new pumpers are being rolled out that are slightly narrower to counter the increase in larger cars in London.

There are very detailed and well defined laws regarding appliance access to high rise buildings. The rules factor in floorspace and if sprinklers are fitted.
The lower the level of fire protection the closer the appliance must be able to be parked. (2 meters for a building without sprinklers.)

It may be that taller platforms (with significant horizontal reach) could have affected rescues, but that was not a strategy adopted early and then would have became hazardous due to falling debris.
None the less it is a dismal sight to see the platforms only reach 100ft.

The "stay put" policy worked for some folk but not for those on the upper floors.
Reports that some of those on upper floors were unaware of fire up to an hour after emergency services arrived.

Aside from sprinklers and alarms, other aspects of fire survival were compromised by the cladding.

A partially completed new gas line and (unverified) problems with dry riser may have contributed.

Ultimately it appears that fire ate the building from the outside in, from more sides and greater height than could be fought with the two aerial appliances to hand.
Reports that smoke or gas line compromised the stairwell.


A roof based exterior deluge sprinkler with dry riser (water is pumped from street) would be a feasible temporary solution for buildings fitted with cladding.
Descenders only work if area below is not engulfed.

Removing this shitty cladding from lower floors should be a priority to thwart future arson by extremists, whom at London bridge, went equipped with Molotov cocktails..


Mjb
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 21:25   #55 (permalink)
 
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Apparently the fire appliances had restricted access due to cars parked around the building.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 21:52   #56 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Apparently the fire appliances had restricted access due to cars parked around the building.
And bollards designed to prevent vehicular access.

Reports of fire fighters being protected from falling debris by Police using riot shields.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

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Old 14th Jun 2017, 22:23   #57 (permalink)
 
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Interesting mix of people living there ?. As an outsider I was surprised to observe very few native British people were available for comment , where do they all live nowadays ? Truly a great tragedy ! Suspect the cheap cosmetic cladding played a significant role etc etc! Cliche but one can only admire the rapid response of Thebes fire services . It would appear that the fire suppression systems and alarms were non effective ?
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 22:48   #58 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It would appear that the fire suppression systems and alarms were non effective ?
I suspect non existent is the word you are really looking for.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 22:58   #59 (permalink)
 
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And then there is

London fire: Twelve dead in Grenfell Tower blaze - BBC News

That's two nurses have considered that it is their duty to go into danger to help people in the last couple of weeks.....the other one died at Borough Market. Simone Williams deserves a medal - far more than any sports people...as does perhaps even more so, the Australian Sara Zelenak, murdered at Borough Market. I feel that in her case, a posthumous GC is appropriate.

I'm not that religious, but John 15:13 seems to apply....
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 23:07   #60 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
In addition to white cladding, it appears that triangular shape tubes were bolted to the outside, running vertically, these are the vertical fingers that can be seen burning over 15 floors.

Looking at pictures, it's feasible radiant heat from these lethal Toblerones breached adjacent windows even if they were closed. Windows were hinged at bottom so smoke and flames would be efficiently directed into rooms

The toblerones burnt out, but by then had ignited rooms.


I'm new here, which seems to mean I can't post images yet, but the following URL takes you to a detailed pick of the facade, including said "Toblerones"

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?img...act=mrc&uact=8

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