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Old 20th Apr 2017, 17:18   #21 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
Or transformers - as at Hixon. Although I still believe that police had to bear some responsibility there.....
IIRC, the police were absolved of responsibility at the subsequent inquiry. It caused quite a furore at the time.

I was on the duty crew at 16MU that day and was sent to the scene in the immediate aftermath - not a pleasant sight.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 17:46   #22 (permalink)
 
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Or trees....

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/547c8feced915d4c10000159/R082011_110407_Lavington.pdf
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 17:57   #23 (permalink)
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Generally when a train hits a road vehicle, the heaviest part of the front, the bogies, generally "throw" the vehicle upwards, and if the vehicle is not dead centre it will tend to be thrown outwards, If the engine is in the four-foot what happens after that is dependent really upon one or two major factors.


The vehicle will tend to be pushed along the top of the railhead and this can continue for some distance. The other less fortunate condition can be that the bogies mount the engine block, again pushing forward but this time with considerable resistance. In a small vehicle it is likely that a medium to heavyweight leading unit will again continue to push the engine block forward, whilst remaining on the rails.


At Great Heck, the road vehicle and trailer were thrown aside as can be seen from the photograph, the impact causing the power car to derail towards the right hand side into the space between the two lines. It ran in this condition until it struck the exit points from the sidings at which point it was deflected directly into the front of the coal train running Northwards. This collision killed both Drivers with the coal train loco turning back on itself, and the Power Car of the passenger train being thrown towards the left and down the embankment into the field.



Rear power car just beyond point of collision with coal train. First vehicle on r/h/s is the roof of the loco with leading cab facing towards the power car.


In the case of Ufton Nervet, the car was destroyed, but the engine caused the leading bogie to over-run onto it, from where it pushed it until the engine block smashed the facing points open and the train was diverted into the siding at high speed.



As the train was diverted into the loop line, the power car rolled over and buried itself front down in the ballast, causing the Driver to suffer fatal injuries from that point onwards.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 20:44   #24 (permalink)
 
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Question. Do train drivers wear harnesses?
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:22   #25 (permalink)
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I believe that the Gray Rigg driver threw himself on the floor of the locomotive.

Correction:-
It was dark at the time, and the driver of the train was unable to see anything untoward before the accident. He was thrown out of his seat by the initial derailment and was unable to make a brake application. However, the brakes were applied automatically four seconds after the derailment began, when the leading vehicle separated from the rest of the train.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:43   #26 (permalink)
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Question. Do train drivers wear harnesses?
No because what you hit is generally smaller and secondly no-one would want to be secured to the seat if you had to leave suddenly, e.g. hitting a tree at 125mph, as in the photograph taken just afterwards.





As a regular on the footplate I would rather take my chances in the engine room or main transformer room behind the bulkhead door, or on the floor.

Last edited by Rail Engineer; 21st Apr 2017 at 10:11.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 23:27   #27 (permalink)
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The prosecution after the Great Heck accident seemed to be based largely on the car driver's tiredness. So little, if anything, was said about the line's vulnerability at that point. A tyre, or swerving for some valid reason could have sent the car off the road. It simply should not have been able to cause that much death and destruction.


Walton on the Naze:




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Old 20th Apr 2017, 23:50   #28 (permalink)
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Many overbridges had additional 'protection' added to prevent intrusion onto the track by road vehicles.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 10:07   #29 (permalink)
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The protection of the Railway from vehicle incursion has always been the legal responsibility of Council or Highway Authority. In the case at Great Heck, as in many others the requirements were either not properly applied or indeed applied at all.

Most cynically of all, after Great Heck the various Councils and Authorities having been found to be in breach of their legal responsibilities came cap in hand to Network Rail to fund something that was not our responsibility.

In the grand scheme of things it was considered that the risk was too high for the Railway to wait until the Councils/Authorities got their act together and vast sums of money intended to improve the railway were spent putting right what had not been done by others.

As if to rub salt into the wound, some organisations later tried to weasel out of their responsibility by using the argument that once Network Rail had allocated money for these measures, that this transferred responsibility for all future maintenance and indeed installation had transferred to Network Rail.

That whole attitude and approach by the roads people leaves a bad taste in the mouth, as it is normal for them to try to squirm out of their responsibilities.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 18:45   #30 (permalink)
 
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That whole attitude and approach by the roads people leaves a bad taste in the mouth, as it is normal for them to try to squirm out of their responsibilities.
The state of the crumbling motorways and roads together with the growing number of un-repaired potholes bears witness to that attitude.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 20:11   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I believe that the Gray Rigg driver threw himself on the floor of the locomotive.

Correction:-
It was dark at the time, and the driver of the train was unable to see anything untoward before the accident. He was thrown out of his seat by the initial derailment and was unable to make a brake application. However, the brakes were applied automatically four seconds after the derailment began, when the leading vehicle separated from the rest of the train.
Grayrigg rail crash.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 22:42   #32 (permalink)
 
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And to think there are total knobs like that sharing the roads (and railways) with us!
Not only knobs - commercial pilots and transport drivers have to undergo medicals on a regular basis, but how many private car drivers hurtling towards you at a closing speed of 150 mph (?) ever even visit a doctor ?

A local citizen recently had an "event" whilst driving, and died at the wheel, but had the presence of mind - or was he just lucky - and pulled left into the ditch instead of right into oncoming traffic.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 02:16   #33 (permalink)

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A local citizen recently had an "event" whilst driving, and died at the wheel, but had the presence of mind - or was he just lucky - and pulled left into the ditch instead of right into oncoming traffic.
Man unable to predict his own death. Not a lucky day IMHO, No Harm done, except for him.

ExSp33b1rd angry as a result anyway

You're only as fit as your last medical, or as innocent as your last DBS check.

This place used to be fun.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 03:49   #34 (permalink)
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As always with regard to such tragic events, irrespective of the mode of transport, this interim R.A.I.B report makes sobering reading.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nds_Jn_IR2.pdf

Not unsurprisingly, the fabled "holes in the cheese" finally lined up on the day with the inevitable result.

Operating / management culture, mechanical failure ( any input from the rail professionals with regard to the dead mans handle and the technical issues associated with the device would be welcome please ) human factors and the wx ....all combined.

Another case study for the future duly resulted.

I seem to recall however, that, when this incident occurred, the thread on here duly contained posts which followed the R n N format of " knowing the cause prior to the investigation".
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 11:01   #35 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Paracab View Post
You're only as fit as your last medical, or as innocent as your last DBS check.

This place used to be fun.
Or not.

Years ago, I was getting dressed after the annual aeromed ordeal and remarked to the Doc* that I really looked forward to getting a free annual health "MOT". The Doc* looked up from writing his notes and replied, somewhat laconically:

"I don't want to spoil your illusion, but absolutely nothing we've done to day can predict when you're going to die. Your as likely to keel over and die now as you were before you came in here"


*Said Doc was a certain Surgeon Cdr R Jolly, for those who are aware of him and his sense of humour.

Last edited by VP959; 24th Apr 2017 at 12:00. Reason: typo
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 11:37   #36 (permalink)
 
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As someone who uses the train on a regular basis it's very easy to get complacent regarding just how big they are when you only see the top half at the platform.

Recently at Truro station I disembarked on the 'up' line and left the station from that side rather than crossing the footbridge and out through the ticket office. I had to wait a minute for the level crossing, and when the train passed it felt as if I was looking up at the side of the cliff.
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