PPRuNe Forums


Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th Apr 2017, 21:28   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Next to Ross and Demelza
Age: 46
Posts: 767
Turkey

So that's how democracy ends. Ironically, at the ballot box.
Martin the Martian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Apr 2017, 21:50   #2 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,341
He always said he'd get off the bus when the time was right....
ORAC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Apr 2017, 21:57   #3 (permalink)

I'd rather be floating

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 3,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin the Martian View Post
So that's how democracy ends. Ironically, at the ballot box.
There are precedents, the most obvious of which would have me fall foul of Godwin's Law.


Incidentally, this does show up that the promise that Turkey would imminently join the EU and flood us with immigrants was, surprise surprise, just another #brexshit lie (yawn).
Gertrude the Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Apr 2017, 22:20   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 77
Posts: 1,030
The birth of a new dictator...
Turbine D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Apr 2017, 22:39   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 427
Quote:
Incidentally, this does show up that the promise that Turkey would imminently join the EU and flood us with immigrants was, surprise surprise, just another #brexshit lie (yawn).
It's amusing to see that, in a thread about the demise of democracy, one of the first responses is a post whining about the democratic choice of the British people.

The left only like democracy when the people vote the 'correct' way.
MG23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Apr 2017, 23:50   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 2,326
I don't know about 'the left' (whatever that is) but as far as I'm concerned I like my democracy to be based on facts and truth, not lies, innuendo, spin or as in this case total BS!

Is that too much to ask?

And yes I do know that both sides were equally guilty which is why my opinion as that the referendum should never have taken place.

We are where we are.
TURIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Apr 2017, 05:23   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
The birth of a new dictator...
Just a thought: recent events around southern Mediterranean and Middle East have shown that a dictator can be a better choice than frequent changes of governments well versed into the use of extreme violence against their opponents - see Libya, Iraq and partially Syria. I accept that Turkey has a larger population of well-off educated people with high income but they are still in Middle East and maybe just maybe need someone to run the country in quite a different way than Western standards. That is as long as he behaves in international relations.
Rwy in Sight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Apr 2017, 06:34   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norwich
Age: 65
Posts: 55
[QUOTE=TURIN;9742757]I don't know about 'the left' (whatever that is) but as far as I'm concerned I like my democracy to be based on facts and truth, not lies, innuendo, spin or as in this case total BS!

Is that too much to ask?

And yes I do know that both sides were equally guilty which is why my opinion as that the referendum should never have taken place.

And that really was the basis of my quarrel with it. Despite the protests of those who consider themselves better situated to weigh up all the evidence and come to a balanced decision I found that I was unable to on the information available.
Effluent Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Apr 2017, 06:54   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 65
Posts: 812
Turkey votes for Christmas.
sitigeltfel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Apr 2017, 09:04   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 724
I have just got back from Turkey where I have a home.

I had many conversations with educated businessmen who all were anti this referendum.

They all expressed the same view that Erdogan would win as at least 50% of Turks are stupid!

By this they meant that 50% are rural and poorly educated folk.

The three main urban areas Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir apparently voted no but are outnumbered by the rural population.

When you neuter the press and control the media as Erdogan has you can pretty well get away with anything.

My place is already on the market.
vctenderness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Apr 2017, 22:53   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,738
Quote:
So that's how democracy ends. Ironically, at the ballot box.
I agree. I'm almost tempted to say that's how Hitler got into power. However, given the imperfect non-democratic Weimar constitution with powers of the president to appoint a head of government I must say Erdogan got it democratically.
rotornut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 02:57   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,006
Trump and Erdogan both won the votes of non college rural folks.

What interesting times we live in
RatherBeFlying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 05:50   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On the Rump of Pendle Hill Lancashi
Posts: 626
IMO Turkey could now start to be in a spiral downwards to some sort of Religious or ethnic cleansing in the future.. sad really that a Dictator has been born out of stupidity, by the guile and cunning of a once mere lemonade and nut seller..!
Peter-RB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 08:18   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northumberland
Age: 58
Posts: 707
I worked in Turkey twice with their Military. In all my, albeit limited, dealings I never saw much 'democracy' in action.
They were good to work with, very sociable but harsh to the extreme. I saw two incidents in which they 'dealt' with locals that had 'got in the way'. Brutal.
The further East you went the worse it got. That was in the early 90s.
Wyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 08:48   #15 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,341
Democracy = one man, one vote - and Erdogan is the man with the vote.
ORAC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 18:52   #16 (permalink)
Buttonpusher
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bloody Hell
Age: 58
Posts: 391
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear would Greece help ?
FLCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 20:03   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Austria
Posts: 638
It would be contractually obliged, being a member of NATO...
Tu.114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 20:28   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 51
Posts: 737
Can't be anything to worry about, otherwise the UK wouldn't have signed up to have Turkey maintain our F35 engines. Hmmm....
Curious Pax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Apr 2017, 20:56   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Democracy = one man, one vote - and Erdogan is the man with the vote.
Don't understand why they abolished the post of prime minister. The prime minister is appointed and sacked by the president so there's considerable scope for patronage there. Also, the prime minister is always a useful scapegoat to take the blame when things go wrong and required to fall on his/her sword (as is, for example, often the case in France).



Quote:
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear would Greece help ?
Quote:
It would be contractually obliged, being a member of NATO...
Oh really? funny how article 5 of NATO didn't apply when the UK was attacked by Argentina in 1982. An invasion of a NATO member's territory is an attack on it, no matter how far away that territory is from the mainland.

What would happen if one NATO member attacked another, such as Greece and Turkey?

Obviously not going to happen, but theoretically what would happen if Spain occupied UK territory (Gibraltar)?
Fairdealfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Apr 2017, 07:03   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: home @ 103E
Age: 52
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCH View Post
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear would Greece help ?
If it's the rear, call the Greeks? 😎
perantau is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:17.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1