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Old 28th Oct 2016, 11:41   #41 (permalink)
 
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I have a good friend with progressive SLE Lupus - the pain is excruciating and prescriptive medication has virtually no effect. Some relief can be obtained using marijuana oil but of course it is not available legally so what do you do. What would anyone do?. The only option is to find someone who makes it in their kitchen and then buy it at grossly inflated prices.

Not producing and distributing medicinal quality oil under controlled conditions is a sentence of death by pain for a lot of people.

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Old 28th Oct 2016, 12:20   #42 (permalink)
 
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Read a series of articles in last 10 years that discussed usage of drugs both legal and illegal.

One of the articles started talking of Zombies, it was a definite headline grabber but author was being quote serious in its use.

Their view was at a point in time of a major event (war / civil breakdown etc) where supply of both legal and illegal were constrained he examined what would occur.

He was looking on basis of US solely and indicated that circa 50% of US population were on some kind of drug (often addictive) , most people probably have 1-2 weeks supply maximum.

End of supply and you have potentially millions of people going Cold Turkey at same time desperate as he described it for the next "Fix" or seeking a new supply with its own mental stresses.

Indicating that from a clinical perspective seeing a single patient going Cold Turkey off drugs or Alcohol immediately was hard, a facility he had worked at needed a team of people and often had to restrain people to get them through it.

He indicated seeing 20,000 people in a city of 50,000 doing it pretty much guaranteed full civil insurrection and a thinning out of the population rapidly.
Also as drug use pretty much was right through society then there would likely be no Civil or Military functions exercising control hence anarchy.

I not sure author was completely correct but lot of his viewpoints were close to the mark.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 12:37   #43 (permalink)
 
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Yes, and the sky would fall.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 13:02   #44 (permalink)
 
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I had a friend from high school with whom I would actually drink tea! On the other hand, yes, I also hung with a crowd of smelly dope-smokers ... the whole tutti-frutti, including listening to Bob Dylan with devout attention to all his insights. We were going to change the world, except that it never slowed down enough for us to catch it.

Not long afterwards, though, my straight-arrow friend had become a devout smoker of the sacred ganja, for fun; he also used LSD, but "only for guidance."

This guy with a Master's from Northwestern University ended up being canned from a job driving a school bus in our small town, because he kept getting lost. Pah-thetic!

Can dope fry your brain? Yes, I think it can, because I saw it happen to my friend. Is dope a gateway drug, though? Not necessarily.

Take warning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApWCaL-NeJA
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 13:06   #45 (permalink)
 
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I think I will stick to the juice of Juniper Berries, along with corn Juices and craftsman altered Grape Juice..seems to work big style for me and my pals..
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 13:11   #46 (permalink)
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The mind is such an amazing thing in its natural state. Why would anyone want to alter it?

Unless they're persuaded to do so by someone wanting to exploit them for financial gain. His methods may be crude and distasteful, but perhaps President Duterte has a point?
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 13:38   #47 (permalink)
 
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The mind is such an amazing thing in its natural state. Why would anyone want to alter it?

Seems people have been doing just that from the beginnings of time. The Egyptians invented beer - not because they didn't like Nile water. The Germans celebrate it in rowdy festivals, the French don't drink wine for the fruit juice content and so many summer afternoon's are graced with tall G&Ts on the lawns. Seems it's part of being human.


Please do differentiate between those things harmless in moderation and the hard stuff that is just there to totally alter your existence - or try to. That's a phantom world that you can never really touch. There is no instant railroad to hell from toking the bud for the vast, vast majority of users. Just like those who drink do not all end up straightjacketed in a padded cell after going on a bender and deciding to practice some target shooting on moving objects. Everyone is an individual with individual reactions to anything. Legalizing pot will not bring on Armageddon, might actually improve quite a few things in the end.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 14:53   #48 (permalink)
 
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In my youth I was given a book. A Child's Garden of Grass

I vividly recall Chapter 21 "Dangers of Pot". After turning the page, a single phrase:
GETTING BUSTED
Turn the page again to Chapter 22.

True to this day, for most people.

Morphine, derived from the same source as heroin, is classed by the WHO as an essential drug. Drugs derived from marijuana are illegal and their use prescribed. Why?
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 18:30   #49 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Seems people have been doing just that from the beginnings of time. The Egyptians invented beer - not because they didn't like Nile water. The Germans celebrate it in rowdy festivals, the French don't drink wine for the fruit juice content and so many summer afternoon's are graced with tall G&Ts on the lawns. Seems it's part of being human.


Please do differentiate between those things harmless in moderation and the hard stuff that is just there to totally alter your existence - or try to. That's a phantom world that you can never really touch. There is no instant railroad to hell from toking the bud for the vast, vast majority of users. Just like those who drink do not all end up straightjacketed in a padded cell after going on a bender and deciding to practice some target shooting on moving objects. Everyone is an individual with individual reactions to anything. Legalizing pot will not bring on Armageddon, might actually improve quite a few things in the end.
Indeed thay have, and not just humans, either. Plenty of other animals deliberately seek out intoxicating substances, like elephants eating Marula fuit.

Pretty much every ancient culture has a history of substance "abuse", from datura through to hallucinogenic cacti and many, many varieties of fermented drinks containing alcohol. We even have some really exotic historical uses of powerful drugs like belladonna, etc, that today only remain as folk tales of "flying witches" (the reality is that some women found that crushing stuff like belladonna, wolfsbane, henbane etc into a paste on a stick, and then rubbing it on certain sensitive membranes caused enough hallucinogenic compounds to be absorbed as to give them the feeling they were flying).

There are so many stories of relatively harmless drugs (in terms of the risk of addiction and death) being used for millennia that I think it's reasonably safe to say that such drugs are a part of our culture.

There is a world of difference between the use of a naturally-occurring plant or fungus to alter perceptions and the deliberate manufacture of addictive and dangerous drugs, though, and I would include in that list the relatively recent phenomenon of selectively breeding marijuana to produce strains that are many, many times more powerful than those that have grown naturally for thousands of years.
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 00:06   #50 (permalink)
 
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Indeed thay have, and not just humans, either. Plenty of other animals deliberately seek out intoxicating substances, like elephants eating Marula fuit...
What rubbish Elephants and other animals do seek out Marula fruit, but not to get intoxicated.

Makes me wonder how much other stuff you post is poorly researched and simply wrong

Kruger Park Times | The Myth Of Elephants Drunk On Marulas

Elephants Drunk in the Wild? Scientists Put the Myth to Rest
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 00:11   #51 (permalink)
 
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It seems that for once Queensland and other Australian states my be near the forefront of change - in this case introducing Medicinal Cannabis:

Updated 13 Oct 2016, 11:50am
Queensland GPs will soon be able to prescribe medicinal cannabis for patients under new laws passed by State Parliament on Wednesday night.

The State Government said the Public Health (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2016 provided a legitimate pathway for Queensland patients of any age and with a range of conditions to access legal medicinal cannabis products.

The laws give certain specialists such as oncologists, paediatric neurologists and palliative care specialists the right to prescribe medicinal cannabis from March next year.

Where is medicinal cannabis legal?

Federal Government
Medicinal cannabis use is still illegal and only available through trials and limited special access schemes.
But, earlier this year, the Federal Government passed legislation legalising the cultivation of cannabis for medicinal purposes.

Queensland
Queensland doctors will soon be able to prescribe it for their patients' treatment. New laws will give certain specialists including oncologists, paediatric neurologists and palliative care specialists the right to prescribe medicinal cannabis from March 2017. Other doctors would be able to apply to Queensland Health for permission to prescribe the drug for patients with certain conditions.

Tasmania
The State Government announced in April specialist medical practitioners would be allowed to prescribe the drug to patients suffering serious and chronic illness from 2017.

NSW
In July, NSW Premier Mike Baird said 40 children in the state with the most severe cases of drug-resistant epilepsy would now have access to a cannabis-based treatment under a compassionate access scheme.
NSW is conducting a trial for patients suffering vomiting and nausea as a result of chemotherapy.

Western Australia
The WA Government previously said it would not conduct medicinal cannabis trials until it received the results of testing in New South Wales.

Northern Territory
Not legal.

South Australia
In April, SA Health Minister Jack Snelling ruled out changing the law in South Australia at this stage.

Victoria
It's legal here. It was the first state to pass legislation legalising the use of medicinal cannabis.
Other doctors, including GPs, would be able to apply to Queensland Health for permission to prescribe the drug for patients with certain conditions.


Medicinal cannabis: New laws allow access for Queensland patients of any age - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Last edited by david1300; 30th Oct 2016 at 00:11. Reason: Highlight quote from news report
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 00:13   #52 (permalink)
 
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And from further on in that same report:

Medicinal cannabis local supply needed

Civil libertarians want the Queensland Government to work towards establishing a local industry to supply medicinal cannabis.

Queensland Council for Civil Liberties spokesman Michael Cope said the legislation would be of no use if steps were not taken to secure a supply.

"Our understanding is it's extremely difficult to get hold of because it's only manufactured in a few countries and it's being sold into other markets," he said.

"I wouldn't be surprised that it would be extremely expensive - it's a simple case of supply and demand."
There are limited medicinal cannabis schemes in New South Wales and Victoria.

Internationally, medicinal cannabis has been approved for use in Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden and the United States.
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 00:22   #53 (permalink)
 
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There are also licensed Hemp farmers in Queensland (and I believe elsewhere in Australia) that are currently in discussions with government about including medicinal cannabis as a crop they can cultivate. It will probably take until early to mid next year for the guidelines, rules and regulations to be finalised, but there also needs to be account taken of the TGA process (more or less equivalent to FDA in USA) as this develops further.

https://www.tga.gov.au/presentation-...hats-happening

The exciting thing is that it seems that the availability and control of medicinal cannabis won't fall under the commercial control of big pharmaceutical companies. We can only hope that this is the case. These companies will probably try and stall the full scale introduction until they find a way to get their greedy commercial paws to control supply. I hope that their influence over western governments does not prevent the quick and widespread availability of medicinal cannabis.
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 05:30   #54 (permalink)
 
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What rubbish Elephants and other animals do seek out Marula fruit, but not to get intoxicated
Maybe not on purpose (drunk that is) but video seems to suggest it does happen. Who to believe?

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Old 30th Oct 2016, 09:55   #55 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by david1300 View Post
What rubbish Elephants and other animals do seek out Marula fruit, but not to get intoxicated.

Makes me wonder how much other stuff you post is poorly researched and simply wrong

Kruger Park Times | The Myth Of Elephants Drunk On Marulas

Elephants Drunk in the Wild? Scientists Put the Myth to Rest
My source was from a David Attenborough wildlife programme years ago, that showed elephants that were clearly intoxicated after eating this fruit.

Maybe that source was wrong, maybe it wasn't, but most animals are pretty damned good at avoiding foods that make them ill, so why wouldn't elephants avoid eating Marula fruit if the consequences were unpleasant for them?

The rest of my post you refer to is, to the best of my knowledge, true. Feel free to debunk it though.

Last edited by VP959; 30th Oct 2016 at 14:23. Reason: typo - and extra "is" crept in somehow............
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 14:16   #56 (permalink)
 
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The issue of medicinal cannabis is one that must admit not having issues with as provided it is prescribed by pharmacists who know its strength then it is just another prescription drug.
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 14:28   #57 (permalink)
 
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The issue of medicinal cannabis is one that must admit not having issues with as provided it is prescribed by pharmacists who know its strength then it is just another prescription drug.
I think one problem that's been encountered is that marijuana varies a great deal in terms of its active constituents, so one form of medicinal extract available by prescription may well not be any use for some patients.

The bigger problem (apart from the legality) is that there's no money for the drug companies in doing this. Any approved extract would have to be tested for safety, side effects etc, just like any other prescription drug, yet the pharma companies wouldn't be able to charge a high price for the product, just because it's available on the street relatively cheaply.

I can't see any government funding the approval of a marijuana extract so that it could be made available under prescription, either.
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Old 30th Oct 2016, 16:17   #58 (permalink)
 
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The bigger problem (apart from the legality) is that there's no money for the drug companies in doing this. Any approved extract would have to be tested for safety, side effects etc, just like any other prescription drug, yet the pharma companies wouldn't be able to charge a high price for the product, just because it's available on the street relatively cheaply.
{cough} Big Pharma is certainly into pushing Oxycodone (etc.) when a cheaper alternative (heroin) is about.

They would leap at an opportunity to screw the consumer, yet again. The sad fact is that they are not interested because it isn't addictive.
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Old 31st Oct 2016, 07:39   #59 (permalink)
 
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I read this thread with a mix of amusement and despair. It seems that all the posters to date have, at best no clue as to what they are talking about, or worst, apologists for the drug culture that has invaded mankind.

I speak from family experience and a close relative who is a geneticist.

Firstly, medicinal Cannabis.

There are some 750 different compounds in the pot family. Only one gets you "high". Medicinal Cannabis does not have the compound that gets you high. Drug fans often tout a joint as medicine. That is only a way they try to make pot "ok" as a social norm.

That one compound that gets you high is a Geno Toxin. It causes DNA to change. The user probably wont see its effects, but 7 generations down the line we will see an explosion of birth defects. Damaged DNA replicates, getting more damaged with each generation.

Chronic use of pot fries your brain. My partners ex who is 48 has the memory of a 80 year old. My 21 y/o step son is already showing signs of early onset dementia. He has been a chronic pot user for 6 years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedh...n-generations/

Studies are being released, of course they will be attacked, funnily enough, the most unlikely people are pot users. Guess who attacks the validity of the reports.

Chronic abuse of pot has a disastrous effect on the mental health of some people. Friends who work in Mental Health in Denver tell me there has been an explosion in their workload since pot was legalized.

Anyone who thinks pot is harmless is just kidding themselves and gambling that their grandchildrens grandshildren won't be born with 3 legs.
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Old 31st Oct 2016, 07:49   #60 (permalink)
 
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Oh Fess up Guptar, you co-produced this little gem, didn't you?


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