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Old 17th Sep 2017, 00:40   #18101 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post

Estimates are 10 plus years to replace that EU trade by which time we are bankrupt
Estimates by who?
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 01:06   #18102 (permalink)
 
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Looks like the EU isn't happy with Boris

Quote:
The Italian leader of the socialist bloc, Gianni Pittella, likened the tone of the intervention to that of Donald Trump.

Pittella said: “Boris Johnson is embarrassing his country once again by repeating the lies of the Leave campaign. He is jeopardising the Brexit negotiations by threatening to turn the UK into a low-regulation economy.'
Pretty much explains what Brussels are frightened of - competition from a low-regulation, low-tax economy just 20 miles offshore..
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 01:36   #18103 (permalink)
 
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Pace

Once again you present the scenario where 40% of our international trade with the EU disappears overnight with Brexit. Also the never ending refrain that nobody knows what Brexit means.

Firstly, our trade with the EU amounts to far less than 40% of our international trade and decreasing month by month. Secondly, existing trade will continue the day after Brexit just as it did the day before. Brexit is a political decision which will impact on trade regulations but have no effect on trade itself.

If there is a demand for a million widgets a day by BMW in Germany and they are currently sourced from the UK, then that demand is not going to dry up overnight. BMW might well seek other, cheaper, sources within the EU after Brexit because new trading rules make UK widgets more expensive, but demand is not going to shut down instantly. In the meantime, there is no reason why a shell company can't be set up within the EU to maintain the supply of cheap widgets by doing some finishing work and repackaging in the EU of UK produced widgets. It is all a matter of knowing how to operate within the rules.

Since the UK will no longer have to comply with imposing EU tariffs or production limits, we have the opportunity to undercut other manufacturers operating in the EU on price, quality, quanity or a combination of all three.

As for what Brexit means, that is up to us to determine once we have left the EU. The EU has been dictating what membership means and what we have to do in order to comply as members of the club. Once we have left the EU we will have the self determination that will allow Brexit to be whatever we, as a nation, want it to be. That is the new freedom, that is what leave supporters voted for, self determination and sovereignty for the UK.

All the indications so far are that for the UK, the decision to leave the EU is the right one. Your increasingly desperate posts demanding a second referendum, an extended transition period, or reproachment with the EU just serve to underline we chose the correct path, which is to seek to regain our independence.

Maybe the whole project will prove to be the most abject failure in the history of the world, but at least our descendants will be able to look back and see we still had the guts to give it a try.

Britain has always led where others follow in every area of mankinds achievements, science, philosophy, politics, the arts, warfare, medicine, literature, music, films, etc., etc. Don't underestimate the UK, we may have our internal issues, but on the world stage we are up there very near the top and have been for centuries. We may no longer have an empire, but the talent and drive that drove those earlier successes are still there in our genes.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 02:53   #18104 (permalink)
 
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Pace

This is proper could be screwed insiders dealing info which I will be taking full advantage of.

Nobody internationally is doing deals with Germany just now for ,producing or bending metal. More importantly designing metal.

A londener with Apple news would have zero exposure to the real world.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 09:42   #18105 (permalink)
 
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Since the UK will no longer have to comply with imposing EU tariffs or production limits, we have the opportunity to undercut other manufacturers operating in the EU on price, quality, quanity or a combination of all three.
And will not need to comply with working time limitations, health and safety protection for workers and any number of devices brought in to uphold employment conditions.

Double edged sword.

I do fear for the future of my child, I hope I am wrong and that your optimism prevails.
We will see.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 09:49   #18106 (permalink)
 
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mir...s-10818388.amp

Gouli

With the latest Boris attempts to stop May announcing a status quo transition this shows the real background to all that is wrong with brexit

I never saw May as the Thatcher style Leader but stage managed to appear that way
Brexit has been controlled by the gang of 60 leave means leave far rightof the party
May has been a puppet on a string PM controlled by that totalitarian element of the party

Did the public vote for their vision of brexit ? Absolutely not
They have tried to silence democracy motivated by ideology and a hankering to the past

We shall see if she has the guts to announce a status quo transition
My guess if she does the right will oust her
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 09:51   #18107 (permalink)
 
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Nobody in the Conservative Party is "far right".
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 10:09   #18108 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
May has been a puppet on a string PM controlled by that totalitarian element of the party
So your saying that the Conservative government, or as above, elements of it are totalitarian, please tell me what part of the following demonstrates that and explain why you feel that is the way they are going:

Quote:
Totalitarianism, form of government that theoretically permits no individual freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of individual life to the authority of the state. Italian dictator Benito Mussolini coined the term totalitario in the early 1920s to characterize the new fascist state of Italy, which he further described as “all within the state, none outside the state, none against the state.” By the beginning of World War II, totalitarian had become synonymous with absolute and oppressive single-party government. Other modern examples of totalitarian states include the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler, the People’s Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and North Korea under the Kim dynasty.

In the broadest sense, totalitarianism is characterized by strong central rule that attempts to control and direct all aspects of individual life through coercion and repression. Historical examples of such centralized totalitarian rule include the Mauryan dynasty of India (c. 321–c. 185 BCE), the Qin dynasty of China (221–207 BCE), and the reign of Zulu chief Shaka (c. 1816–28). Nazi Germany (1933–45) and the Soviet Union during the Stalin era (1924–53) were the first examples of decentralized or popular totalitarianism, in which the state achieved overwhelming popular support for its leadership. That support was not spontaneous: its genesis depended on a charismatic leader, and it was made possible only by modern developments in communication and transportation.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 10:17   #18109 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace View Post

With the latest Boris attempts to stop May announcing a status quo transition this shows the real background to all that is wrong with brexit


People voted to leave - keeping the status quo is not leaving.

Shesh what is it with you and your rejection of democracy.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 10:17   #18110 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger View Post
Nobody in the Conservative Party is "far right".
Hmm, I suppose it depends on your point of view.

Independent-Far Right in Charge of the Conservative Party
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 10:35   #18111 (permalink)
 
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Jet 11

People voted leave but wanted to stay in the single market
Nothing has changed in a brexit leaning poll where the surprise was the majority still support brexit but the same 62% want the single market

Maybe your leave means leave need to educate the British public more
As for democracy you only want that when it supports your damaging cause

The facts are we are way off any long term agreement with the EU
Facts are we need that market
Facts are until we have a long term good agreement we need a transition myguess for at least 4 years
Facts are it makes no difference what the transition is based on it will be time limited

It's only you desperate brexiteers who insist on building Rome in a day
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 10:58   #18112 (permalink)
 
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dai...s-oust-PM.html

Tories at war with themselves
They have torn themselves apart over Europe before
They will do it again
But with their minority government they cannot afford to do so
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 11:53   #18113 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
And will not need to comply with working time limitations, health and safety protection for workers and any number of devices brought in to uphold employment conditions.
Yes we will because EU law is being adopted as UK law. The only way to get rid of it would be a vote in the Commons and in its current state there is no chance of getting it through.

Quote:
Hmm, I suppose it depends on your point of view.
Yes if you want to believe the musings of the (Not so) Independent.

Quote:
People voted leave but wanted to stay in the single market
Nothing has changed in a brexit leaning poll where the surprise was the majority still support brexit but the same 62% want the single market
Pace, we knew that a vote to leave would mean leaving the single market, I thought we had passed the point where you needed reminding about that fact but it seems like we havnt so here you are. Its no use quoting one single poll when the main poll 9referendum) said the opposite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PDHnZGFdSs

Quote:
Maybe your leave means leave need to educate the British public more
As for democracy you only want that when it supports your damaging cause
But they did here is Gove and Johnson saying the same thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9pcKDh7fU

So there you go, you really dont believe in democracy unless you agree with the result do you You have had two chances to stay and you failed both times.

Quote:
The facts are we are way off any long term agreement with the EU
Facts are we need that market
Facts are until we have a long term good agreement we need a transition myguess for at least 4 years
Facts are it makes no difference what the transition is based on it will be time limited
The only fact that matters Pace is the fact that the UK voted to leave the EU, it matters not how much you whine on about transition periods and the like that fact is indisputable.

Quote:
It's only you desperate brexiteers who insist on building Rome in a day
And its only you desperate remainers (some of whom couldnt even be bothered to vote) who refuse to believe in democracy.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 11:59   #18114 (permalink)
 
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Left or right wing

Your view depends on your lens

Europe is by and large socialist
High taxes, welfare state, etc.

In comparison to the USA at any rate
The left of the USA, the democrats, have members that are more right wing than some tories.
By and large, the politics of this country are socialist.

Uk politics are just different shades of socialism.

Far right? Totalitarian?

In the Uk?
Words of true ignorance.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 12:37   #18115 (permalink)
 
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Pace, we knew that a vote to leave would mean leaving the single market, I thought we had passed the point where you needed reminding about that fact but it seems like we havnt so here you are. Its no use quoting one single poll when the main poll 9referendum) said the opposite.
Rob firstly then the population as a whole do not realise what you do because that 62% has been remarkably consistent since day 1

It was the most disgusting of refrendum with the shear volume of pure lies thrown out from both sides that no one knew what to believe

Your links you keep posting ?
All they state is that leaving the EU means we leave our automatic membership of the single market correct

There is nothing to stop us applying to join
The single market from a position outside our membership of the EU
All your links state is the blatantly obvious which is leaving the club means we loose our auto membership of the health Spa but there is nothing to stop us joining the health spa even if we don't hold membership of the golf club

Again hard brexit false claims
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 12:44   #18116 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
There is nothing to stop us applying to join
The single market from a position outside our membership of the EU
All your links state is the blatantly obvious which is leaving the club means we loose our auto membership of the health Spa but there is nothing to stop us joining the health spa even if we don't hold membership of the golf club
Oh Pace the more desperate you become the funnier you get Of course there is nothing to stop us applying to join but to do that you would have to accept the four freedoms pay to be a member, accept the ECJ rulings and contribute billions to the EU so they can continue to sell us more than we sell them. In other words its remaining in the EU but having no say in the rules. THe latest poll (seeing as you are so keen on them when they show what you believe in) says 77% of people just want to get out. So if you believe in polls you will stop this constant whining on about a second referendum.

Quote:
Again hard brexit false claims
No such thing as hard brexit, just Brexit
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 12:47   #18117 (permalink)
 
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Less than a third of Brits confident PM will get the right Brexit deal - HITC
https://apple.news/AT1QX_0O6OAym-01uV027TQ

What is the right deal ? What one section of the population think the right deal is the other half consider the wrong deal
Hence when the deal or lack of deal is known it is imperative it goes to the people
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 12:49   #18118 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What is the right deal ? What one section of the population think the right deal is the other half consider the wrong deal
Hence when the deal or lack of deal is known it is imperative it goes to the people


See my last post about getting more and more desperate.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 12:52   #18119 (permalink)
 
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That's very generous of you Rob, and given your enthusiasm about leaving, perhaps not entirely unexpected.

The rest of the world however......
Not really interested in what the rest of the World thinks Krystal just the UK.

BTW, did you read that piece I posted on the left wing case for leaving the EU? just in case here it is again.

The left wing case for leaving the EU
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 14:17   #18120 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Courtney View Post
Not really interested in what the rest of the World thinks Krystal just the UK.

BTW, did you read that piece I posted on the left wing case for leaving the EU? just in case here it is again.

The left wing case for leaving the EU
That's fine Rob....let's narrow the field down to the UK.

I take it you've given today's headlines a mere cursory glance then ?

And, in case you missed them, watch the third / fourth pieces on last nights C4 news....

https://www.channel4.com/news/progra...017/09/16/1830

Thanks for repeating the link. I did read it the first time however.
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