PPRuNe Forums


Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th Aug 2017, 21:08   #15901 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 52
Posts: 317
Quote:
Ideology has to be based on sound economic
Bollocks

Communism is an ideology and its economically a load of rubbish.
tescoapp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Aug 2017, 21:17   #15902 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
Rob

Sadly Corbyn wants brexit as that is the only way he can get his vision of a return to extreme socialism through
Sadly for you a hard brexit or one with no sound agreement is the best way of ensuring Corbyn takes power and relagates the Conservatives to opposition for a decade
On the plus side he is a weak leader and the Unions are committed to the single market
What the unions say always goes
Expect a change of labour policy by autumn conference
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Aug 2017, 21:24   #15903 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 61
Posts: 576
If Corbyn was the price to paid for the hardest of hard Brexits, that would still be a price worth paying. Just goes to show if you go far enough to the right, you end up on the extreme left. What goes around, comes around and we are still leaving.
G0ULI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Aug 2017, 21:49   #15904 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Very close to the Theatre of Dreams!
Posts: 156
Quote:
Sadly Corbyn wants brexit as that is the only way he can get his vision of a return to extreme socialism through
Sadly for you a hard brexit or one with no sound agreement is the best way of ensuring Corbyn takes power and relagates the Conservatives to opposition for a decade
On the plus side he is a weak leader and the Unions are committed to the single market
What the unions say always goes
Expect a change of labour policy by autumn conference
No such thing as Hard Brexit, just Brexit. Sadly for you not all unions want to remain and thanks to the general election result Corbyn can do what he wants because he is untouchable at the moment. I know you are at the clutching at straws phase but dont place a bet on it cos it wont happen under the present leadership
Rob Courtney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Aug 2017, 23:23   #15905 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: On the beach with a cerveza.
Posts: 1,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by racedo View Post
No

They will just scale back the Investment they making in other countrys and supply from Germany.
Well the only other European manufacturing plants that Mercedes has for example are in France and Hungary,, so i really dont see how closures there help the EU.



Quote:
There is no car manufacturer in UK who cannot move production elsewhere if access to EU starts to become costly.
But that applies now and will continue to apply even if we remain members. Surely Fords shifting of production from the UK to Turkey taught you that?
Jet II is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 06:43   #15906 (permalink)
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton
Age: 63
Posts: 8,624
'Good time to consider moving job' as starting salaries are boosted by Brexit exodus

UK Unemployment at 42 Year Low
ORAC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 07:40   #15907 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
Brexit Is A Catastrophe, Says David Davis' Ex-Chief Of Staff James Chapman - HuffPost UK
https://apple.news/APLpdf0V7S_SBzgH7pr-mdw

There is a long way to go on brexit will it happen ? Not sure on that one
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 08:04   #15908 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
Posts: 1,523
Silly question; no answer required.
Wingswinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 09:04   #15909 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 52
Posts: 317
Jean-Claude Juncker dismisses talk of calling off Brexit

Juncker seems pretty certain. More than likely because he has a team of legal types who are working to make sure that UK can't come out of Brexit if they want to or not.
tescoapp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 09:18   #15910 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
TescoApp

It's all posturing the EU would be delighted if brexit was called off and business as usual
But follow your argument through
If you were correct then there is no deal and we are doomed to disaster
It is now commonly accepted by the cabinet that we need a transition
A transition is very much in the EU hands
If we are so little wanted or needed as your link portrays then equally there will be no transition and the EU will concentrate on legislation to bleed the country dry if anything EU

I agree May is in for a big shock if she thinks she can cherry pick bits in the customs union

The best the EU will offer will be a Norway style transition on take it or leave it
It is all turning into one giant stupid mess still dictated by the right of the Conservative party who seem to think they got that 100 plus majority in their demands

My guess is the conservatives will turn up with their list of last minute hacked up demands and the EU will tell them to come back when they have something sensible
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 10:12   #15911 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Very close to the Theatre of Dreams!
Posts: 156
Bit surprised you have not mentioned Spain backing down on Gibralter Pace or does it not fit your agenda

Spain?s climbdown over Gibraltar is significant - EXPRESS COMMENT | Express Comment | Comment | Express.co.uk
Rob Courtney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 10:18   #15912 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
Age: 52
Posts: 317
Some of the EU would be delighted because it fixes a short term problem.
Which is exactly the same as in the UK.

You used ideology early and there is the same in with some in the EU.

The ideology is continued progression towards a socially integrated federal state of Europe across all levels of living.

UK is a major spanner in the works to that and has been for most of the time it has been involved.

So there is a hard core in the EU like the UK that see's the continuing involvement of the UK in the EU project as an extremely bad and stupid idea.

Now these hard cores can't see a long term future of the UK in the EU.

It doesn't matter when the UK leaves there will be issues some of them long term and others short term.

But both sides see its better to deal with them sooner rather than later because the UK is acting as a handbrake to the EU project and in someway watering it down.

So yes it is posturing because both sides have to seem as if they have at least tried.

May will not be in shock and nor will any of the other people involved, they know fine what each side is willing to move on and what its not.

Far from being dictated by the Tory's its the European Commission that is driving the process it even controls what options are put in front of the European Parliament. At least there is the possibility of a private members bill in the UK not so on the EU side the EU commission Engine is running it all.

The EU will not negotiate it has set its conditions and will not budge on them. The offer of having a third party jurisdiction to resolve conflicts has been refused. Its a perfectly good sensible idea but no it has to be the ECJ.

There will be no transition (to be honest we are actually in the transition just now and if you don't set yourself up for it well tuff luck its your own problem this applys to EU and UK citizens)

Quote:
and the EU will concentrate on legislation to bleed the country dry if anything EU
Yep and it will also change Art 50 so the next country leaving will not have the ability to leg it without a ball and chain round its leg. Which is why some of us believe that this is a 1 shot trump card we are playing.

Once we are out zero deal then sensible discussions will occur eventually. Blank sheet of paper trade deal like any other country doing a trade deal. But its unlikely anything near what you would like will occur until loads of people have nothing to do with EU politics. This whole thing is personal to a lot of them and it won't just die when we are out.

As I said your fixation on the economics is actually the reason why the UK is not suited to being in the Union. One part of the philosophy of the Union is the economic strengthening of the members but that is just one part of the overall plan.

Like any other club if you just one to take advantage of one part of being a member but don't play the game with the rest of the goals of the club then its going to end in tears.

I think your economic predictions are way out. Personally I see the EU getting hit far worse than we will. Plus its so huge it lacks manoeuvrability as everything has so much inertia and its almost impossible to quickly get a decision to change direction.

We shall see if they can survive it. Personally I think the UK coming out will be a ladder in their tights and they will try and spot fix it with nail varnish but ultimately a big hole will appear and they will end up looking like a cheap slut.
tescoapp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 19:34   #15913 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
Quote:
The ideology is continued progression towards a socially integrated federal state of Europe across all levels of living.
Tesco app but that is ideology based on sound economics and hence not an ideology which is a luxury
The USA is a model of ever closer Union which works
That looks at the economics of the block rather than individual countries

Would as one of the wealthier economies that improve the UK ? Not in the short term as at present the EU is made up of developing countries and wealth producers
As they evolve more towards parity then the EU could be as powerful as the USA
You cannot knock their ideology
Whether you want to be part of that is another matter

Sadly brexit is an ideology with no economic basis and hence a luxury
Can we afford it ? Not for at least 10 years and the self inflicted damage in the interim may mean we never recover back
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 19:50   #15914 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: On the beach with a cerveza.
Posts: 1,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace View Post

It's all posturing the EU would be delighted if brexit was called off and business as usual
LOL - you are a card. When someone from the EU says something negative about Brexit to you its 'proof' of a disaster. Yet when someone says something about Brexit that doesnt fit your view then its all 'posturing'

So transparent.
Jet II is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 20:03   #15915 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 70
Posts: 567
What was the EU all about. Was it about some Pakistani bloke with a pipe bomb in his case, travelling in one of MO`s Irish planes, on an Italian passport, who had some friends in Manchester. All to do with free movement of all manner of things, including of course labour. And we are concerned about the Economic impact of Brexit. I say let`s take a leaf out of the Ozzies book and hang it on the door of the Commons chamber.
Chronus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 20:23   #15916 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
SNP Minister Confirms Holyrood Still Minded To Block Brexit Bill After Talks - HuffPost UK
https://apple.news/Ak8IO1jQRSoCKDNhKuew0Rw

Another major problem for May

Jet11

I am against us joining the Euro and closer Union and believe the EU need to change their structure to allow certain tier access

All I am saying is the EU are no worse than the USA in their aspirations for a United States of Europe
It is an ideology with an economic basis ! I don't believe brexit is any more than an ideology

As far as the EU and UK should there be a change of heart then I don't think there is anything to stop us doing that in the art 50 regs or ammendments which were placed to protect from abuse of cancellation meaning cancellation is perfectly possible
Hence the comments from the EU are posturing not based on fact

That is not a judgement on whether art 50 is cancelled or not just a statement that it can be cancelled as easily as it was instigated up to the day of brexit
I am not as firmly entrenched in remain as you think but see full unfettered access to the EU markets as paramount
Whether that is staying in the single market or this almost as good as promise by may with a free trade agreement I don't care
As with Mays failed promises to date if her deal isn't forthcoming then it's the lesser of two evils
In my case if there was a next time a vote remain

If there is any more proof you could wish for ? Access to the single market the banks remain no access they go how clear can you get ?

Prospect of soft Brexit sees banks ease off planned moves to Dublin - The Independent
https://apple.news/AqtnZD_pwReiaOrHV9x5T7w

And why Switzerland wants us to brexit ?

How Switzerland is DESPERATE for Brexit: Swiss economic prospects to improve after UK exit - Express
https://apple.news/AhITnwFsaO8Wz1-nJQ4ZV4w

Last edited by Pace; 9th Aug 2017 at 22:17.
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 22:16   #15917 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Very close to the Theatre of Dreams!
Posts: 156
T
Quote:
esco app but that is ideology based on sound economics and hence not an ideology which is a luxury
The USA is a model of ever closer Union which works
That looks at the economics of the block rather than individual countries
It would have been sound economics to conclude a peace treaty with the Germans in 1940 wouldnt it. Also the States do not have a model of ever closer union, they have had more or less the same govt for nearly 250 years.

Quote:
Would as one of the wealthier economies that improve the UK ? Not in the short term as at present the EU is made up of developing countries and wealth producers
As they evolve more towards parity then the EU could be as powerful as the USA
You cannot knock their ideology
Whether you want to be part of that is another matter
Yes you can you are talking about 28 countries all with long histories, different languages and customs. Your effort to equate the EU to the USA is somewhat desperate.

Quote:
Sadly brexit is an ideology with no economic basis and hence a luxury
Can we afford it ? Not for at least 10 years and the self inflicted damage in the interim may mean we never recover back
Could we afford a war in 1940 Pace? shouls we have accepted the Germans offer of peace?
Rob Courtney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 22:21   #15918 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,012
Rob

It's very worrying that you keep turning back to the Second World War and the days when Britain was great
Everything has moved on from then but I am not sure with you ?

A number of your posts are firmly entrenched in a bygone era

We are not re living the Second World War my good chap ))
Us against German supremacy ((

But maybe for you and others that's what it is about ?
Pace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 22:34   #15919 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 60
Posts: 1,945
Not 350 million a week

EU cost: Why 350m and 156m per week are both wrong - BBC News

but still an eye watering amount of money each.
Seldomfitforpurpose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Aug 2017, 22:35   #15920 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Well the only other European manufacturing plants that Mercedes has for example are in France and Hungary,, so i really dont see how closures there help the EU.
Try Nissan who can move to one of their other facilities in EU from UK or to a joint Renault facilty like Romania

Quote:
But that applies now and will continue to apply even if we remain members. Surely Fords shifting of production from the UK to Turkey taught you that?
EU countrys can't tempt other EU nations manufacturers............. UK not in EU so rules don't apply and tarriff free access gone adding 2500 to cost of car.
racedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 21:11.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1