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Old 28th May 2017, 18:10   #13541 (permalink)
 
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So, what have I learnt about Brexit recently:

1. UK airlines wonít be able to fly in and out of Europe.
2. European airlines wonít be able to fly in and out of the UK.
3. The UK is not the USAís favourite nation anymore.
4. All trade with Europe will stop, WTO tariffs will be economically disastrous for the country for any trade that might survive Brexit.
5. All EU immigrants are now leaving the UK in droves because of Brexit and nobody wants to come here anymore.
6. Farmers have voted themselves out of a living.
7. London financial services are moving to Europe, so London will be empty before Brexit happens.
8. No investments into the UK and the economy is in tatters.
9. Corbyn could win the election, or be in a coalition.
10. Brexit will not happen and the EU will wreak havoc with the UK to make us suffer, however remain voters wonít care, even if it affects their wallets, as they will be over the moon to have eventually got their way.
11. There are still Project Fear merchants and defeatists who appear to gloat at every opportunity to post like minded views that demonstrate how bad Brexit is in their opinion, how superior they are, and how the UK is doomed.
12. Apparently, there are only one or two people who know for a fact that Brexit is bad for them personally, and by default the rest of the country, and all the people who donít agree are deluded crackpots.
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Old 28th May 2017, 19:48   #13542 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
... and only denied by crackpot hard right
... which these days is not only UKIP and Tories but also Labour, who support #brexit but haven't included the cost of this policy in their manifesto.
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Old 28th May 2017, 19:53   #13543 (permalink)
 
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who know for a fact that Brexit is bad for them personally, and by default the rest of the country, and all the people who donít agree are deluded crackpots.
I have just had supper with my brother and sister here in London! My brother could be Gouli in disguise ))
We chatted about brexit and obviously don't see eye to eye!
I explained to him that I am really not against brexit as long as we are still in the single market
We are still operating in that awful single market so how other than dealing with a crashed pound are we doing so well apart from inflation
Take away the single market ?
We will get even worse inflation and all the negatives of no longer being in the single market
How can that make any sense ?
Brexit is an ideolgy! An ideology is a luxury which has to be based on a cost
Nothing I have seen in this forum or outside makes brexit economic sense

Without the single market and Tariff free unfettered access to that market it's an ideological luxury we cannot afford

That is the argument I put to my brother and hence to Gouli
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Old 28th May 2017, 21:17   #13544 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
... which these days is not only UKIP and Tories but also Labour, who support #brexit but haven't included the cost of this policy in their manifesto.
Everybody are nutters except us
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Old 28th May 2017, 21:18   #13545 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
I have just had supper with my brother and sister here in London! My brother could be Gouli in disguise ))
We chatted about brexit and obviously don't see eye to eye!
I explained to him that I am really not against brexit as long as we are still in the single market
We are still operating in that awful single market so how other than dealing with a crashed pound are we doing so well apart from inflation
Take away the single market ?
We will get even worse inflation and all the negatives of no longer being in the single market
How can that make any sense ?
Brexit is an ideolgy! An ideology is a luxury which has to be based on a cost
Nothing I have seen in this forum or outside makes brexit economic sense

Without the single market and Tariff free unfettered access to that market it's an ideological luxury we cannot afford

That is the argument I put to my brother and hence to Gouli
You must have some cracking family reunions
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Old 28th May 2017, 21:45   #13546 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Nothing I have seen in this forum or outside makes brexit economic sense

Without the single market and Tariff free unfettered access to that market it's an ideological luxury we cannot afford
But nothing that you or I can do about it will make the slightest bit of difference. It's going to happen anyway.

I have accepted that. Why can't you?
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Old 28th May 2017, 23:06   #13547 (permalink)
 
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SallyAnn

Quite simply because we had a vote in June 2016 on something Unknown
Apart from a few hardline brexiteers who would brexit at any cost the vast majority voted for something better
If far from being better it's going to severely damage the economy and hence the pockets of those who trusted the government to achieve brexit in a responsible positive way then the least the government should do is to ask that public permission to take such a destructive leap

It's just like me being asked to fly to Brexavia in one go
My passengers took that decision to rent me and the jet to go direct non stop to brexavia
Sadly I have 100 kts heawinds and no fuel range to get there safely
Your saying look the passengers made the decision to rent the jet and go direct so that is now inevitable ?
Sorry that's not how I think or operate
I can still go to brexavia but it's going to require a fuel diversion and longer route
May has the option to negotiate a 5 year transition based on the single market while technically achieving brexit
It won't satisfy those passengers who are demanding a direct route it will take longer but if you want to take a massive risk with your passengers the least you should do is ask them
People including yourself have been brainwashed into believing there is only one route to brexit and nothing else is acceptable or possible

That's utter rubbish

We continue to do exceptionally well in the single market despite brexflation and the destroyed pound
It is the conservatives who have declined the single market
It is the conservatives who have put EU immigration in a bonkers way above the health of the economy
It is the conservatives who have made the single market into a dirty word
Brainwashing my dear
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Old 28th May 2017, 23:10   #13548 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Obviously the airline can operate into an EU country but cannot operate within the EU
Say goodbye to the cheap fares available now
Well the only low cost airline that would be affected is Easyjet and even they wont be affected if Stelios declares that he is Cypriot (he has dual nationality)

Quote:
The gist of the article is correct that we are so intertwined in the EU that it will be a economic disaster to cold turkey out
That is accepted universally and only denied by crackpot hard right
The only crackpots are the ones that believe daft articles like this from the Independent
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Old 29th May 2017, 00:04   #13549 (permalink)
 
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Majority of voters want Theresa May to spell out Brexit plans before election - The Independent
https://apple.news/A4yV4idSzSqerbO8deRJGtQ

Will of the people ?

Jet 11 what has it got to do with Stelious or his nationality ?
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Old 29th May 2017, 00:21   #13550 (permalink)
 
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Pace

We are already well on the road to leaving. There is no five year transition period to be negotiated. There is a fixed two year transition period that started on the day that Article 50 was activated. The leaving process under Article 50 is all pre ordained, at the end of two years we will be outside the EU.

Trade will of necessity continue between the UK and the EU. It really doesn't matter under what terms that trade is conducted because essentially the goods being traded will still cost the same to produce and transport as they do at present. Any cost changes will only occur due to government action by either the EU States or the UK Government, such as imposing tariffs.

Now tariffs work both ways in trade, so neither side will benefit from punative tariffs, however the governments in the EU and the UK will benefit by having more income as a result of the tariffs. Yes, this amounts to additional taxation of consumers who are the ones who end up paying higher prices in the High Street.

It has been obvious for quite some time that the government in the UK has lacked the financial resources to properly fund the NHS, education, the Armed Forces, Police, and local infrastructure projects. Everything has been spent in high profile projects such as HS2, much to the detriment of the average man in the street.

I put it to you that while we may well go through a period of inflation and belt tightening from a personal perspective, it is up to us as citizens to hold our government representatives to account and ensure the extra revenue that the government receives as a result of leaving the EU is properly reinvested in Britain and in support of restoring public services. Lobby your local councillors, write to your MP, take an interest in local planning decisions and ask the difficult questions, insisting on an answer.

Theresa May will have five years to get things sorted out. At the end of that government term, I strongly believe that she will be re-elected should she decide to stand for office again. Quite simply, there is no credible alternative.

Brexit is happening, it will be hard.

That two year transition period is not just for the EU, it is for the man in the street to make preparations, put a bit of money aside for a rainy day, emigrate, obtain foreign citizenship, whatever it takes to make the transition as painless as possible. You can't just sit in your hands and do nothing, or throw up your hands in horror and protest at how unfair it is. Life isn't fair, just get on with it or go under.

Personally, I'm buying a new car to celebrate.
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Old 29th May 2017, 00:34   #13551 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post

Jet 11 what has it got to do with Stelious or his nationality ?
Only EU-owned airlines can operate flights within the EU - this means that 50.1pc of shareholders must be based in Europe. Easyjet dont meet that rule if Stelios continues to declare himself British - however should he declare himself Cypriot then Easyjet meet that requirement.
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Old 29th May 2017, 06:32   #13552 (permalink)
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Doesn't matter what you declare yourself, you either are or you are not. He was born in Athens and lives in Monaco. Dual nationality is alllowed. Already qualifies.
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:26   #13553 (permalink)
 
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Gouli all sounds so simple
Sadly it's not just us trading as before on tariffs that suits neither side
As an example there are 3000 smaller uk companies who are totally EU trade dependent
Already the EU are putting trade which was going into the uk into EU countries
Nissan Toyota Ford sell 80% of their cars into the EU
Each car made up of roughly 6000 parts
80% of those parts made in the EU
If these car companies get a sniff at being more profitable based in the EU they will follow their market
A company like Toyota employ roughly 6000 but there are 45,000 jobs dependent on Toyota
Then of course there is our Gateway status! The reason why so many world companies come to the uk and invest heavily in the UK
We haven't even touched on financial services

The problem with your simplistic economics is that it doesn't address the whole complexity and intertwinement of decades in the EU

Take my word for it ! Hard brexit out and it will not be business as usual but a government desperately trying to stop the torrent of jobs and investment leaving the UK
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:47   #13554 (permalink)
 
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That's why Ford pulled the Transit production line out of Southampton thus ending 100 years of vehicle production by Ford in the UK. It now no longer manufactures complete vehicles in the UK and hasn't since 2002 for cars and 2013 for the Transit range. They now only have the Ecoboost and AJ-V8 (until 2018 when JLR move it to their new engine plant in Wolverhampton) engine plant in Bridgend, the Duratorq diesel engine plant in Dagenham and the Getrag transmission plant in Halewood.

Major manufacturers have always gone where labour is cheaper as long as it is also "technically acceptable" hahahaha.
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Old 29th May 2017, 11:02   #13555 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
SallyAnn

Quite simply because we had a vote in June 2016 on something Unknown
Apart from a few hardline brexiteers who would brexit at any cost the vast majority voted for something better
If far from being better it's going to severely damage the economy and hence the pockets of those who trusted the government to achieve brexit in a responsible positive way then the least the government should do is to ask that public permission to take such a destructive leap
You still don't get it do you Pace? This is not about whether Brexit is good or bad, or whether there should be another referendum. It's already decided. You can repeat yourself indefinitely - in fact you seem determined to do so - but you will make no difference to what happens.

You may just as well rage about death, and demand a choice of how and when it happens. That won't make any difference to how it comes for you.

Good or bad, and whatever your choice or opinion, we will be leaving on or before March 2019 without another referendum. Yes I know it's sh!t - I agree with you - but you are just wasting your time and bandwidth repeating your same tired, useless argument.
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:26   #13556 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Doesn't matter what you declare yourself, you either are or you are not. He was born in Athens and lives in Monaco. Dual nationality is alllowed. Already qualifies.
You cant be considered a UK based shareholder and a Cypriot based shareholder at the same time for the location of shares as Tax regimes also come into play and you cannot have dual taxation.

Its either one or the other.
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:32   #13557 (permalink)
 
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SallyAnn

I am fully aware we are leaving our membership of the EU that's not in question !
How we leave! What is acceptable or not acceptable to us in getting an agreement is very much in question and can range anywhere from a Norway style departure to a no agreement departure with a whole host of options in between
Of course we can fulfill the leave vote technically and get an agreement with the EU
A no agreement will be that certain things are not acceptable to this government
A no deal will be the Governmrnts fault not the EUs who's market it is and who's rules you play by
Just imagine labour were in power! They would achieve a brexit although not a brexit acceptable to the conservatives but still a brexit

Remember just after the vote the average of polls indicated that 62% wanted to be in the single market while restricting immigration

It is this government who have determined that immigration is a red line while the single market is a no go area not the people

It is quit feasible to meet brexit while in
The single market at least technically

Last edited by Pace; 29th May 2017 at 12:46.
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:55   #13558 (permalink)
 
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Oh FFS what is it about "No 4 pillars, No Single Market" as stated by Juncker, Tusk, Merkel etc do you fail to understand?

As one of the 4 Pillars is "Freedom of Movement" then there can NOT be a Brexit and access to the Single Market. Get over it
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:57   #13559 (permalink)
 
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ZZZZZZZzzz
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Old 29th May 2017, 13:38   #13560 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I am fully aware we are leaving our membership of the EU that's not in question !
Your posts do not appear to reflect this declared awareness.

Quote:
Of course we can fulfill the leave vote technically and get an agreement with the EU
The only way to technically leave, is to leave as voted for, and it has been clearly stated ad infinitum what the vote for leave meant and the fact the EU is trying to dictate what is acceptable or not, knowing that what they demand is not what was voted for, but you know all this as well.

Quote:
Just imagine labour were in power! They would achieve a brexit although not a brexit acceptable to the conservatives but still a Brexit.
It would not be a Brexit then would it, and it would not be acceptable to those who won the referendum or those that have changed their minds since, god you are unbelievable in you blind intransigence to everyone who does not agree with your personal opinion on the future of our country.

Quote:
It is quite feasible to meet brexit while in the single market at least technically
Not if the EU say no and without not really leaving so it keeps you and your ilk happy, as that would mean the UK giving into the bully boy tactics of the EU and project fear on the UK side.
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