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Old 29th Aug 2016, 07:08   #81 (permalink)
 
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Sue

I can only go by how the commission work with EASA the aviation regulatory body!
EASA create regulations the Commission approve or disapprove or require changes to the regulation and then it's rubber stamped by the European parliament who 99 out of 100 just approve the commissions recommendations
In the regulating process individual country CAAs may put their point to influence those regulations but the regulations are taken in whole and not part

I see it a bit like the flat in London I bought which has a managing company and a contract
As the buyer I have no ability to change the contract only to accept it

Technically the parliament could refuse something the commission propose in reality they never do and the commission hold-all the power
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 07:12   #82 (permalink)
 
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The Brexit campaigners did not and could not make government policy.
So they were deliberately promising things that they knew they couldn't deliver?
Sigh!
Gertie, wombats having a bad day? I take back my previous post as you are clearly a marsupial of very little brain, or have the mental age of 6!
With regards to "promises" and forecasts thrown about in the Brexit Campaign the real stinkers go to Cast Iron Dave, Wee George, the IMF and numerous other so called experts. WW3, the sky falling, economic Armageddon( well that bit is true but inside the Eurozone), plagues of frogs, Global meltdown.
Yet still the EU's answer to massive a rising dissatisfaction and anger at the EU is more EU, more control to the unelected "Elite". The "iceberg" has been hit, a massive hole has been carved below the EU's waterline and its full steam ahead and get that string quartet playing "Ode to Joy".
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 07:52   #83 (permalink)
 
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Sue, the USA is a transfer Union, the Eurozone currently isn't, which is why it functions so poorly. However, if our mythical American Union became a transfer Union, the USA would have to make up the Argentinian budgetary shortfalls.

Regarding your commission question, in most areas the EU works upon a system of Qualified Majority Voting. Regardless of any review process, laws and directives can be foisted upon a country that has voted against them. In the case of non Eurozone countries this can be problematic because the Eurozone countries naturally want the customs union to work for them and they form the majority.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 08:19   #84 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by engineer(retard) View Post
....in most areas the EU works upon a system of Qualified Majority Voting. Regardless of any review process, laws and directives can be foisted upon a country that has voted against them.
Or more pertinently can be foisted upon a country regardless of whether such laws are favourable or beneficial to that country.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 09:27   #85 (permalink)
 
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As Junckers and his cronies are pushing for closer union, same laws, same taxes, same currency, will this not include having the same language? Of course this will be German.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 09:48   #86 (permalink)
 
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Probably the most comprehensive voting survey, which strangely doesn't mention "getting rid of brown skinned people", which is an answer thrown around by the hard of thinking:

How the United Kingdom voted on Thursday... and why - Lord Ashcroft Polls
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 09:51   #87 (permalink)
 
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So they were deliberately promising things that they knew they couldn't deliver?
Sigh!
Gertie, wombats having a bad day? I take back my previous post as you are clearly a marsupial of very little brain, or have the mental age of 6!
Enough of the schoolboy name calling and ad hominem attacks.

It is undeniable that Brexiters promised outcomes in the knowledge that they personally would not have to carry them out.
It is also clear that a policy was dropped onto a government that disagreed with that policy and knew it could not be implemented as promised.

Nevertheless the government has agreed that 'Brexit means Brexit' and appears to be preparing for it as best it can.

Sensible Remainers accept that position and will get on with the job.

Sensible Brexiters will accept that the outcome has to be different from what was promised, and not complain that the government failed to achieve it.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 09:51   #88 (permalink)
 
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Another sensible analysis, which explains why the "where is the plan" brigade are talking nonsense:

The Fallout from Brexit - CapX
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 09:55   #89 (permalink)
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" A lot of prose has been written about how we have all been conned.



Yes it has, although according to some on here, no promises were made, unless you discount the "facts" being grossly distorted as such with a certain £350 m saving...for example.



Immigration is a straightforward black and white issue really. It is not about white immigrants coming from Europe. If the same numbers had turned up from the more tropical regions of the planet, there would have been huge social unrest.

How very droll.....the sort of humourless stance masquerading as humour that draws guffaws from the local pub BOF's community. UKIP supporters and those who live in a "less than cosmopolitan " lifestyle....and always have / will do.

" Europe was and continues to move towards a unified federal state. That is one of the avowed goals of the EU, ever closer union of members states".

When in doubt....regurgitate. Always a good bet to impress the chaps here on JB, but, as always, without any credence. Closer union, yes, and I've always been in favour of such, but that tried and tested..."alarmist gargbage for the dysfunctional thinking" UK populace about a "unified federal state", yet again I pose the question....still unanswered on here.....quelle surprise ! as to which EU states will be the first to surrender their sovereignty.....some of you chaps must be giving this some rather deep thought therefore.....



As an independent nation with one of the largest economies in the world, it does not suit Britain to become a small cog in a large organisation. Britain has fought for centuries to maintain independence from Continental control, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. This is just another skirmish in the conflict between European ideals of amity and unity and British isolationism and independence. If we can't control the game, we won't play, simple as that

And the grand finale !.....without which some on here would be suffering from deprivation akin to starvation ......the usual emetic jingoism....however, it's nice to see you have identified a condition. well more a quintessential English trait...starts about age 3 with "shan't ! I want ! " and banging of rattles, thereafter developed as "adults" with foot stamping and table banging until the trait reaches its zenith and hence we get "We're British and if we can't get our own way, we're going to flounce out of here with all the petulance we can muster...so there !"

Societal progress really is an anathema for many it seems.

Toodle pip....chaps !

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 29th Aug 2016 at 15:58.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:03   #90 (permalink)

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the perceived immigration problem
With "perceived" being the operative word.


We need enough people working and paying taxes to meet our pensions bill. As the born-British population ages and doesn't produce enough children to support itself that means immigrants. The real "immigration problem" is making sure we get enough immigrants, whatever people's erroneous perceptions might be.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:07   #91 (permalink)
 
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The real "immigration problem" is making sure we get enough immigrants

You need to get the right type of immigrants. Not the free for all that currently exists. There has to be selection and control of the process.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:14   #92 (permalink)
 
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'Pro's and Con's'

Meanwhile, would someone kindly remove the apostrophes in the title of this thread
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:35   #93 (permalink)
 
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Sallyann, there are times when a spade needs to be called a shovel. Your self appointed sanctimony is as equally tiresome as Gertie intentionally misinterpreting the facts.
This is Jet Blast if it's too hot then "get out of the kitchen" . I am sure and have seen that Gertie is well capable of taking care of him/herself .
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:47   #94 (permalink)
 
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We need enough people working and paying taxes to meet our pensions bill. As the born-British population ages and doesn't produce enough children to support itself that means immigrants. The real "immigration problem" is making sure we get enough immigrants, whatever people's erroneous perceptions might be.
Immigration is not a bad thing but you need controlled immigration for it to work otherwise as stated previously you drive down wages and living standards and transfer the burden of paying a living wage from the employer to the state. While we remain a member of the EU we cannot do this.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:50   #95 (permalink)
 
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GTM

Yes you are correct that immigration will help the country!
I would like the last poster state that it's the right sort of immigrant! Not sure how the 1 million illegals we have let in will help unless you run a strawberry farm

Your argument reinforces what a crap policy the EU have on freedom of movement
One mans gain is another's loss and young people vacating countries like Poland are hardly going to improve the Polish economy ?
The fact that the EU freedom of movement means freedom of settlement means that the vast majority of young Poles will be lost to Poland for good as well as disintegrating family structures there
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 10:54   #96 (permalink)

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Immigration is not a bad thing but you need controlled immigration for it to work otherwise as stated previously you drive down wages and living standards and transfer the burden of paying a living wage from the employer to the state.
That theory would be fine in a world where you could stop people moving across borders and could also stop goods, money and information moving across borders.

You could then have a high-wage high-price economy isolated from world markets and world prices.

But in the real, modern, world if locally produced stuff (where "stuff" is goods or services or information or whatever) is more expensive than foreign stuff the punter is going to buy foreign - it's simply not possible to keep UK programmers' wages high by policing the internet to the extent necessary to stop people downloading foreign software, just to take one easy obvious example.


(I agree by the way that the current system of the state subsidising low wages is wrong. But I'm afraid I don't know the right answer to it.)
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 11:47   #97 (permalink)
 
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The right answer to the wages question is to align the welfare system with that of the continent. Meaning no access to in work benefits until substantive contributions are made, same for the health service.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 12:03   #98 (permalink)
 
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But in the real, modern, world if locally produced stuff (where "stuff" is goods or services or information or whatever) is more expensive than foreign stuff the punter is going to buy foreign - it's simply not possible to keep UK programmers' wages high by policing the internet to the extent necessary to stop people downloading foreign software, just to take one easy obvious example.
You cant import an electrician or plumber of bricklayer. They need to be on the ground or your house will fall apart. Its these type of jobs that have been destroyed by uncontrolled immigration. What is the point of doing a 4 year apprenticeship to work for minimum wage? that's whats happening across the engineering and construction trades, cheap labour is a huge disincentive to train your own people and pay them a decent wage. Companies like JCB seem to manage to pay their staff a decent wage and remain competitive both here and abroad
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 12:45   #99 (permalink)
 
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For those of you who are still incapable of understanding the economic impact of uncontrolled low skill low wage employment listen ONCE AGAIN to the LEADER of the TUC




She has no axe to grind and is telling it as it is.

Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 29th Aug 2016 at 12:59.
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 13:01   #100 (permalink)
 
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I can only go by how the commission work with EASA the aviation regulatory body!
EASA create regulations the Commission approve or disapprove or require changes to the regulation and then it's rubber stamped by the European parliament who 99 out of 100 just approve the commissions recommendations
In the regulating process individual country CAAs may put their point to influence those regulations but the regulations are taken in whole and not part
Are you sure EASA creates regulations? My understanding is that every year the Commission puts out a statement of what it will work on that year and then it initiates the regulation creation process. Subsequent approval, amendment or even Veto is a prerogative not of the Commission, but of the governments of the member states, the European Council and finally the European Parliament.

Whether on not it's rubber stamped or the majority of regulations are simply approved seems more like a subjective opinion than an objective fact. I suppose it could be researched and proven one way or the other, but I'm skeptical that that's the case. I also doubt that the review process for proposed regulations is 'all or nothing' but rather that it morphs the original recommendation into the final proposal, or indeed vetoes it completely. I'll freely admit that I don't know, but statistics and examples would prove it one way or the other.

Also I don't think that the Commission holds 'all the power', rather that they have the authority to propose legislation which then goes through an approval process and if the legislation is finally accepted (in whatever form) the Commission THEN holds the power of enforcement. That's is far from ALL the power
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