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Old 28th Aug 2016, 19:05   #61 (permalink)
 
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You are worried about EASA and gliding ? Some of us flying 3 country jets are having our careers destroyed by EASA
But don't think there will be any change after we are out as our CAA and DFT will purely adopt the EU EASA regs and adjust the bits that don't fit
That is 100% certain
We will be in by all but name on EU immigration too with fewer of the benefits and all the negatives
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 19:36   #62 (permalink)
 
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Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, and they are doing just fine.. Please explain. I eagerly await your pages and pages of answers.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 19:37   #63 (permalink)
 
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A lot of prose has been written about how we have all been conned.

Immigration is a straightforward black and white issue really. It is not about white immigrants coming from Europe. If the same numbers had turned up from the more tropical regions of the planet, there would have been huge social unrest.

Europe was and continues to move towards a unified federal state. That is one of the avowed goals of the EU, ever closer union of members states.

As an independent nation with one of the largest economies in the world, it does not suit Britain to become a small cog in a large organisation. Britain has fought for centuries to maintain independence from Continental control, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. This is just another skirmish in the conflict between European ideals of amity and unity and British isolationism and independence. If we can't control the game, we won't play, simple as that.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 20:35   #64 (permalink)
 
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Gouli

We have 1 million illegal immigrants in this country! What has that got to do with the EU ? What will us being out have any influence on that ?
As another poster said if you want an intelligent person with qualifications to work in a UK company from out of the EU you have to jump through a load of hoops to get him/ her a visa as well as cost
Think you even have to offer the job to all the illegals first ))

So what is TM doing about the 1 million illegals here ? Nothing !!
What is TM doing about economic or benefits movement from the EU ? Nothing

No wait for it ? She is targeting the 80,000 student visas ? Trouble is there is an uproar from all the colleges who need that income
No wonder she would not give a reduction estimate!

When she says she is shipping 1 million illegals out or at least doing something about that instead of hitting the people we should have here then I might believe your taking control claims
A lot of our mess was our mess

The EU she will window dress for fear of the trade deals
As for my own industry we have already bought the EASA rubbish lock stock and barrel IN or OUT
The whole thing is a joke

Last edited by Pace; 28th Aug 2016 at 20:50.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 20:46   #65 (permalink)

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So why did it not happen pre EU then?
Sorry, can't help you there, I wasn't hiring techies that long ago.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 20:50   #66 (permalink)
 
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Gertie, wombats obviously have small brains, do not understand English or are intentionally ignoring inconvenient truths.

Again and I will type slowly just for you. The Brexit campaigners did not and could not make government policy. They could suggest other uses for the funds currently being sent to Brussels but could not force the sitting government to do anything. That is for the Electorate.

Yes of course the size of the bundle of cash is open to dispute, OMG a politician telling porkies about money. Ooh my!

Now I know you are unhappy about the result and I know you cannot be as dumb as you are pretending to be so how about just growing up just a touch?

Hugs.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 20:53   #67 (permalink)
 
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Britain certainly HAS fought for centuries to maintain independence from continental control, the two most recent times being 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 and the worst day we have as part of the EU is better than the best of those days.

The USA actually IS 50 different sovereign entities with separate legal systems, and each of them have various municipal legal systems. The Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution ensures that federal laws preempt state laws. If it wasn't for the federal government holding the states together then the US WOULD in fact be 50 individual countries and would probably spend more time in conflict rather than in cooperation.

Quote:
The EU parliament has NO law making powers. That lies within the EU commission
I thought the European Commission was merely a group who prepares proposals that may or may not eventually be passed. If that's correct then that might be why THOSE people are unelected. The European Commission then passes those suggestions to the governing bodies of the various member countries (UK parliament) for review, discussion and amendment. At some point the UK government reaches consensus and reports back to the European Commission who then adjust the initial proposals.

Is that correct?


Regarding immigration: what part does membership of the EU play in immigration from former Commonwealth countries? Does it actually have any bearing on that?

Regarding toasters and vacuum cleaners: That sounds like such a frivolous reason to take such a drastic action. Do you think that if Britain is successful in leaving the European Union that the British government will never pass similar laws?
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:03   #68 (permalink)
 
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"Regarding immigration: what part does membership of the EU play in immigration from former Commonwealth countries? Does it actually have any bearing on that?"

EU membership has everything to do with that, ANY EU citizen currently takes pride of place above citizens for the the rest of the World, regardless of qualifications.

"Is that correct?" No, the UK Government HAS to do as it instructed by the edicts sent down from the Commission. If the UK doesn't do as it is told it gets fined.

You appear to think the EU and the USA have similar structures, I have one question, how many Presidents does the USA have and did your electorate have the chance to vote for their candidate of choice? I do know the answer of course, however, the EU has 5 Presidents and us voters did not get the chance to choose, we were presented with the choices by "people who are much cleverer than us and know better than we do", nice system don't you think. BTW the EU Parliament is a talking shop that cannot do anything but talk as it has NO executive powers.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:12   #69 (permalink)
 
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Sue, the USA isn't and has never been 50 seperate countries. It has full fiscal, political and strategic integration and is a transfer union. The EU has none of these. Now imagine trying to form a union with Argentina, Canada and Mexico that works the same way as the USA, then extrapolate the problems from a possible union of 4 countries to one of 28 countries. That is a more appropriate analogy than the one you are trying to draw that equates the USA to the EU
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:35   #70 (permalink)
 
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Yes and they'are 28 independent countries with little economic, benefits or currency parity hence the Euro cannot work and neither can freedom of movement in a fair and balanced way

It will lead to economic and benefits movement but not just on a temporary basis but with settlement rights

That cannot work and neither can the Euro not until there is far closer parity between the members of this ill structured club
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:42   #71 (permalink)

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The Brexit campaigners did not and could not make government policy.
So they were deliberately promising things that they knew they couldn't deliver?
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:46   #72 (permalink)
 
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NSS, isn't that what politicians do.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 21:55   #73 (permalink)
 
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No, the UK Government HAS to do as it instructed by the edicts sent down from the Commission. If the UK doesn't do as it is told it gets fined.
Are you sure? or does the Commission propose legislation that then must be reviewed by the governments of the member countries, adjusted if necessary, and THEN passed by both the European Council AND the European Parliament with any adjustments they want and only THEN does the Commission's enforcement role come into play?

Also the 27+1 members of the Commission aren't just randomly selected, but each proposed by one of the member states.

I can see the fact that the Commission members swear an oath to Europe rather than their associated member state causing some disquiet, but on reflection it also means that no member will be secretly be trying to further the interests of their specific nation. It's a double edged sword.



Actually no, US citizens do not get to vote for the candidate of their choice. And not because they might not like the presented candidates, but rather because the election of the President is done through the antiquated Electoral College system ... but that's a different discussion


I see the point though about joining the US to Argentina etc and it has some validity. Having said that though the US was a series of independent countries (sort of at least) and at the time The Federalist Papers were written could well have ended up that way. America back then was quite similar to Europe now: not at all as united as it is now (albeit that that is sometimes hard to imagine!). Yes I would agree that European history is very different from American history, but at the same time not so much. We've had wars between the states still have simmering dislike between the states, but on the whole have made a pretty successful go of it. As difficult as it is to imagine Europe has the chance to do likewise ... just as the US has every opportunity to break up (just ask them in Texas )


What's a Transfer Union?
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 22:03   #74 (permalink)
 
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Here's a transfer union in the EU:

https://euobserver.com/economic/130045

Now try applying that to the fictional American Union
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 22:04   #75 (permalink)
 
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"That cannot work and neither can the Euro not until there is far closer parity between the members of this ill structured club" posted by pace, hence the headlong rush for ever closer union by Junkers et al...
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 22:06   #76 (permalink)
 
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Better example:

For Richer, For Poorer: Europe on the Verge of Becoming a Transfer Union - SPIEGEL ONLINE
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 22:18   #77 (permalink)
 
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Sorry, can't help you there, I wasn't hiring techies that long ago.
Trust me it did happen just as it happens now in the NHS and doctors from the commonwealth. The high end jobs however are not the issue, its the low paid jobs that have the most effect on an indigenous population. Put simply its supply and demand, if there is a bottomless pit of people willing to work for minimum pay then that's what employers will pay. Its affected the construction and engineering industries the most. After all why pay more for a time served British joiner or plumber when you can get someone from the EU who is willing to work for minimum pay (or below if they are self employed) because that rate is 3 times what they can earn in their own country.

Thats why business loves free movement it keeps their costs down and transfers the burden onto the state on the form of top up benefits.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 23:29   #78 (permalink)
 
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So they were deliberately promising things that they knew they couldn't deliver?
Sigh****

They PROMISED nothing. They couldn't. They were not a governing party. They pointed out that the UK sends £350m per week to the EU. They suggested that some of it gets spent on the NHS instead. That is all. The "promises" were in other people's minds.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 23:50   #79 (permalink)
 
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So they were deliberately promising things that they knew they couldn't deliver?
As did the remain side and they were in government, things such as
Emergency budget 4p on income tax the week after the vote
France would send all the migrants across the channel
Shares would crash
WW3 would start
etc
etc
etc
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Old 29th Aug 2016, 02:36   #80 (permalink)
 
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Ok, the Transfer Union link I'll have to read again. I could see that perhaps being a problem, but that article says "heading towards" rather than "is currently".

Nobody has answered this question yet though
Quote:
does the Commission propose legislation that then must be reviewed by the governments of the member countries, adjusted if necessary, and THEN passed by both the European Council AND the European Parliament with any adjustments they want and only THEN does the Commission's enforcement role come into play?
Can somebody answer that for me please? It was in response to the suggestion that the British government had no choice but to comply with a directive from the Commission and if correct presents a significantly different and more complex picture.


And this bit
Quote:
ANY EU citizen currently takes pride of place above citizens for the the rest of the World, regardless of qualifications.
that would make sense, or at least be similar to America where a job must be offered to an American, regardless of the current state of residency before it is offered to an employee from another country ... actually that's the case for Green cards, and I'm not 100% sure if it applies to H1B (non-immigrant work permit) status

Regardless, that wasn't my question. I meant to ask if as was suggested earlier immigration was one of the determining factors in the decision to leave, will that decision have any bearing on immigration from (ex) Commonwealth countries? I can't see how it would and if that is the case leaving will not completely solve the perceived immigration problem.
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