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Old 25th Apr 2015, 01:38   #101 (permalink)
 
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So, is Hilary Clinton (and maybe Bill as well?) in as deep trouble as listening to Fox News would suggest she is?

What's happening now - at least on Fox News - could be seen by some as an explanation for Mrs Clinton destroying that email server. I understand that she's still outpolling every Republican hopeful for the presidency. Can that continue? Or am I falling for the Fox News version of events?

Surely there must be someone out there (if not a small army) searching for the copies of all those emails at the other end of the electronic mail chain.
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Old 25th Apr 2015, 08:38   #102 (permalink)
 
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Hillary Clinton could sacrifice the first-born of one of her faithful on a sacrificial stone altar as the sun passed its zenith by cutting out the child's heart with an obsidian blade and have the entire thing broadcast in HD on all worldwide news channels and her faithful would still vote for her.
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Old 25th Apr 2015, 08:57   #103 (permalink)
 
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Yes Um..., we have about 45% of our voting public here Dununda who are exactly the same. They'd still vote for the Party that is our version of the Democrats whatever they do. Quite a few of them fit into "they vote to live" description - i.e., they vote for "free stuff".

To be fair, there's another 45% of our voting public who'd probably still vote for our pale, pissweak version of the GoP if they did what you had Hilary doing in your post.

The only difference is that down here, we have compulsory voting, brought in in 1922 when (I think it was) only 18% of the voting public turned up to vote in an election. So you'll see that disenchantment with our politicians is by no means new here.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 14:04   #104 (permalink)
 
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Hypocrites: Not Just Politicians

A member of the political elite forgetting that he grew up with a silver spoon in mouth: I offer you John P Angelos, son of the owner of the Baltimore Orioles, and its Chief Ops Officer. On the recent rioting in Baltimore (which led to cancelling last night's game between Orioles and Royals) his successive tweets say this, as he attempts an information age grandstanding to exploit the violence in his city:
Quote:
@BrettHollander @ThBaltimoreChop Brett speaking only for myself i agree with your point that the principle of peaceful, non-violent protest and the observance of the rule of law is of utmost importance in any society. MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and all great opposition leaders throughout history have always preached this precept. Further, it is critical .that in any democracy investigation must be completed and due process must be honored before any government or police members are judged responsible.
So far so good.
Quote:
That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night's property damage nor upon the acts group but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the US to 3rd world dictatorships like China and others plunged tens of millions of good hard working americans into economic devastation and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American's civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an declining standard of living
and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive
surveillance state. The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the bill of rights by government pay the true price, an
ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importance of any kids' game
played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards. We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the US and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don't have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights and this is makes inconvenience at a ball game irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans.
Note his political connections:
In the past, he donated to the
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee,
the DNC Services Corp,
Presidential Candidates Joe Biden and Barack Obama,
Congressman John Sarbanes,
Democratic Candidate for Congress Frank Kratovil,
the Missouri Democratic State Committee,
the Indiana Democratic Congressional Victory Committee
and the Democratic Party of Colorado.

Angelos is also an ardent supporter of the ACLU, Amnesty International, Planned Parenthood, Special Olympics, St. Jude Hospital and several progressive and populist publications.

While I realize that this burst of twitting isn't as elegant as a well thought out position paper that he might have submitted as an editorial, it highlights the hypocrisy of a politically active member of the rich and powerful in America. He pretends he's speaking for "ordinary Americans" even though he's connected to the circles of power by virture of his father's wealth and his position.

Limousine liberals: love 'em.
(I do tip my cap to his efforts in support of some of those listed charities, which are more likely genuine than not). Even a hypocrite can have a heart.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:34   #105 (permalink)

 
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Not so far so good.

Nelson Mandela set up the African National Congress' armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation), in 1961 when he lost hope that passive and non-violent resistance to the apartheid government would bear fruit.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 18:27   #106 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox3WheresMyBanana View Post
Nelson Mandela set up the African National Congress' armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation), in 1961 when he lost hope that passive and non-violent resistance to the apartheid government would bear fruit.
Fair Point.

My father lives about an hour away, in the DC area. His favorite radio station is in Baltimore and he keeps up on both DC and Baltimore papers.

The point Angelos makes above about an accounting regarding the police department's negligence my father feels quite strongly about: from what he's discerned on the incident where the man died in police custody, he believes that there was not only a screw up, but serious negligence which needlessly ended the life of a man in police custody. To put it in his words: they know better, and they still settled for sloppy work, which cost a man his life.

Whatever else happens, the family of that man will end up in court with a substantial settlement on the basis of negligence. Whether or not criminal negligence charges are filed, which Dad suggests would be well in line with that level of carelessness on the part of the police, depends on the Mayor of Baltimore and the current investigation ongoing into the circumstances.

For the riots, there is no excuse. (And this isn't a matter of whitey keepin' the black folks down. The Baltimore PD is very much mixed in its demographics).
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 20:45   #107 (permalink)

 
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Almost without exception (the exceptions seem to be all in the TSA or Immigration), the Americans I have met and worked with have been decent, hard-working folk; the kind of people who wouldn't let somebody die of negligence in this way.
So, given the increasing publicity of some pretty heinous acts by Police, what's going on?
More reporting but no change in actual stats?
Are the decent folk no longer in the Police?
If not, have they left, have they had the decency ground out of them, are they not joining, or are they not being allowed to join? Or What?
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 21:17   #108 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox3WheresMyBanana View Post
Almost without exception (the exceptions seem to be all in the TSA or Immigration), the Americans I have met and worked with have been decent, hard-working folk; the kind of people who wouldn't let somebody die of negligence in this way.
So, given the increasing publicity of some pretty heinous acts by Police, what's going on?
More reporting but no change in actual stats?
Are the decent folk no longer in the Police?
If not, have they left, have they had the decency ground out of them, are they not joining, or are they not being allowed to join? Or What?
I don't know, but the media has currently chosen to shine a spot light on police behavior. All news organs have their own editorial slants and motivations. I doubt that the Baltimore police department will get out of this without a significant plan of action to prevent something this negligent from happening again.

In a different sort of news, stories like this give me hope.
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Old 29th Apr 2015, 21:25   #109 (permalink)
 
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Hillary Clinton: Time to "end the era of mass incarceration" - CBS News

Hypocrite Hillary at her best. Her Bill signed the infamous Three Strikes and You're out legislation that increased sentences for habitual offenders, and mandatory sentencing guidelines. Hillary said we'd be getting "two for one" when Bill got elected. Oh dear, I guess she wants to do something about a problem she and her Bill helped create.

Fox: interesting point on the peaceful protests in Baltimore before the rioting started. There were five or six days of peaceful protests in Baltimore, but they didn't quite get the media or national attention that the riots did. I guess "if it bleeds it leads" is still true.
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Old 29th Apr 2015, 23:58   #110 (permalink)
 
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Elections have consequences ?


What difference would it make who or what gets elected ?


Change the clowns ,but it is still the same circus
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 00:31   #111 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What difference would it make who or what gets elected ?
Ahh but its a set of clowns from the other side. Basically you get the other side of the population slightly less p!ssed off for a couple of terms.

In essence its about averaging out the p!ssed off factor to keep the" DC level" under control.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 00:32   #112 (permalink)
 
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Circus? Clowns? Actual circus attendance is falling, as is voter turnout. The "Circus" is no longer relevant to modern society. What the people want is "Community Theatre".

Fascist directors need not apply.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 05:17   #113 (permalink)
 
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The real story about Freddie Grey in Baltimore and felony convictions.
A Freddie Gray primer: Who was he, how did he die, why is there so much anger? - The Washington Post
Now lets see how they can say all these bad things done ,and actions justified.
Report: Freddie Gray may have intentionally tried to injure self in police van | Fox News
They should have broke his neck before the van.
2 sides to every story then truth.
He is dead, good, hope many more like him to follow,
I support my police.
Makes me smile
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 09:00   #114 (permalink)
 
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Figures I have seen reported over 4500deaths in custody in the USA over a 6 year period - bearing in mind that 15 states do not regularly report such deaths,this seems to me to be excessive. It averages out at about 750 a year. The UK figures average out at about 35 a year. This begs the question - are U.S. Criminals more delicate or is the U.S. Police force more brutal?
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 10:57   #115 (permalink)
 
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Maybe it begs the question that it needs a bit more than a simple statistical comparison, not apples and oranges.

Things such as violent arrests etc demographics, ones that resisted versus went quietly.

In essence thats what needs to be done with the black deaths. If you break down the demographics etc, you might find things are much closer.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 13:33   #116 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
He is dead, good, hope many more like him to follow,
Earl, that's heartless.
Things in Baltimore aren't good.
Quote:
The Baltimore Sun newspaper reported last fall that, over the previous four years, more than 100 people had won judgments or settlements related to allegations of police brutality and civil rights violations.

These included people who suffered broken jaws, noses, arms and legs, or died outright, during what the newspaper called questionable arrests. Baltimore Riots: Violence Scarred a City Dealing With Decline for Decades - NBC News
The cops are confronted every day with the effects of a city that's been in decay for about four decades. In some ways it's a vicious cycle. (Personal observation: The Inner Harbor beautification project was putting lipstick on a pig, at best).
Freddie Gray may not have been the most upstanding citizen ever, but negligence is negligence. From the Washington Post
Quote:
Baltimore police have acknowledged significant errors in the moments that followed: Gray was not seat-belted after being placed in a transport van, a violation of department policy; Gray was not offered medical attention, despite several requests; and officers did not call for an ambulance when he was arrested, as they should have.

City officials have promised to finish their investigation by May 1 and
will then allow prosecutors to decide whether criminal charges should be
filed. The Justice Department is also investigating the incident to determine whether civil rights violations were committed
.
If that had happened in a place like San Antonio or Austin, the PD would likewise come under fire. Big time. (Note: my Brother in Law is a cop, and is keenly aware of the "to serve and protect" standard, even though he deals with low-lifes a lot. He just got off of the Gang Unit assignment, which he was on for three years. His opinion on this case, from a professional PoV, is that some serious issues need to be addressed inside the Baltimore PD in terms of following SOPs and such.)

bcg: please cite your sources. Thanks.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 13:41   #117 (permalink)
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LW50

What has been going on in Baltimore, with incidents like what happened with Mr. Gray, has been going on for years. It's just that recently the media has decided to focus more of their attention on it. In my mind, the rioting that goes on in places like Missouri and Maryland is aided and abetted by that same media.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 13:55   #118 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgbrock1 View Post
What has been going on in Baltimore, with incidents like what happened with Mr. Gray, has been going on for years. It's just that recently the media has decided to focus more of their attention on it. In my mind, the rioting that goes on in places like Missouri and Maryland is aided and abetted by that same media.
The rioting also goes on when certain sports teams win championships.

I saw cited in a number of media stories a pithy excuse for rioting from Martin Luther King (an alleged fan of peaceful protest)
"A riot is the unheard speaking to you" or something like that. His point was more or less that when the system shows a pattern of ignoring you, you have to act out to get attention. Sadly, his point is lost on a generation full of punks who go mad regardless of the excuse: the home team won, someone got shot, someone got arrested, etc.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 17:27   #119 (permalink)
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Speaking of the riots in Baltimore: I've read several news media reports that ALL of the rioters who were arrested were released "without charges."


That sends a good signal.
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Old 30th Apr 2015, 17:38   #120 (permalink)
 
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Seems to be in keeping with the Mayors handling of the situation however.
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