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Old 13th Aug 2017, 06:53   #9221 (permalink)
 
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I'm pretty sure we literally fought a war against fascism. Almost the whole world got involved from memory.

p.s Does the right to the freedom of speech also provide freedom from the consequences of it?

Last edited by Hempy; 13th Aug 2017 at 08:10.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 07:17   #9222 (permalink)
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Trumple and his Stiltskins seem to want to go without the rest of the world for everything else, so I'm sure they can manage this one on their own as well. Maybe he can get Vlad to give him a hand.
You would like to think so, however, it appears your Mr Turnbull has other ideas, mentioning as he has the ANZUS treaty...treaties, as we know, tend to get messy when politicians decide to invoke them.

However, it is to be hoped the rest of the Aussie population will be more sensibly inclined with the time honoured tradition of......Pom bashing ( not entirely unjustified I have to say...unpatriotic cough ! here ) if CA and ACA can get their act together by the end of the year.

After the events a little closer to home, N.Carolina to be more precise, it's amazing to read they weren't simply dismissed as, although this is getting beyond it's sell by date, "fake news"...orchestrated by left wing liberal rioters intent only on preventing those good ol' boys exercising their Constitutional rights to have a peaceful day out.

Not so much a caption competition more a "guess the numbers " contest of the collective IQ of those in the first photograph. The second one, well we read a lot on here about armed militia's ...here's one stalwart citizen that clearly feels threated and oppressed ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40914748

Then there's the ( once N.Korea has been sorted out / bombed / nuked, or, hopefully, just returned to the usual status quo of political rhetoric) of another predilection for American politicians.....this one's just down the road so to speak.

Panama, Grenada, and now......

Venezuela crisis: Latin Americans condemn Trump over 'military response' - BBC News

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 13th Aug 2017 at 07:41.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 12:00   #9223 (permalink)
 
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When the "Hands Up....Don't Shoot" crowd were found out, the Black Lives Matter crowd, the New Black Panthers, the Anarchists in masks, and other groups were burning Police cars, assassinating Police Officers, burning down Baltimore and Ferguson, I don't recall the media or the politicians getting on their high horse about the violence or the failure of the Police to maintain order.....actually quite the opposite.

So why the vigorous outcry over this event?

There is no excuse for violence by either side.

Condemnation of violence should be uniform.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 13:25   #9224 (permalink)
 
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Has Trump wondered what might happen if he should decide to pollute the N. Korean atmosphere? Should he choose that way, China might just say "We are not getting involved with you. By the way, we are calling in our IOU notes. Pay up within a week or we will send the bailiffs in".
China is not only tolerating The Empire's military aggression, they are substantially funding it.

If Trump attacks Korea the Chinese merely need to rein him in by threatening to sell a hundred billions 'worth' of T-bonds a day for the next two working weeks. Of course the market for the wretched things would collapse within two days as there would be no buyers on the first day.

Without the ability to borrow vast sums to fund its absurdly overbloated military-industrial complex The Empire would be unable to fund its wars of aggression against Korea et al.

China does indeed hold the key to ensuring peace in that region, though not in the way that the Chumpster's acolytes like to invert it.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 15:40   #9225 (permalink)
 
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Pattern is Full

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Loma - PLEASE reassure me you aren't falling for the false-equivalency line.
I have no opinion as yet on this.

Please confirm that you own beliefs can define what laws were broken on either side.

The hate continues ... but will law and order follow?
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 16:20   #9226 (permalink)
 
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You alt-righters should tell the Dukers that Tiki torches, rather than intimidating, reinforces the worlds view that they are the impotent white trash of the like civilization thought we had rid ourselves of in the 60's.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 16:49   #9227 (permalink)
 
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It seems the sucker numbers are back on the rise. Including some around here, evidently.

A prescient take from 1947. Eerily familiar.

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Old 13th Aug 2017, 17:21   #9228 (permalink)
 
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What laws were broken on either side? From the video evidence (not beliefs)...

Alt-Right: Felony vehicular homicide, attempted vehicular homicide, engaging in terrorism...and then on down through misdemeanor assault and battery, grievous bodily harm, and disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct.

Counter-Alt-Right: Misdemeanor assault and battery, grievous bodily harm, disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct, and probably misdemeanor theft (some Alt-right flags were swiped or torn down.)

There are laws, and then there are laws. For some, you get strapped to the gurney, the chemicals are pumped in, and your heart stops. For others, you may get a small fine - or simply released.

Lumping them together as "laws" is rhetorical card-palming - not all laws are "equivalent" and therefore not all law-breakers are "equivalent." Exactly as recognized by the American system of justice.

"There was violence on either sides" - NO!, there was murder and attempted murder on one side, and fisticuffs on the other. Honest people recognize the difference - DIShonest people will try to blur the distinction.

Murder should NOT be condemned "uniformly" with throwing punches.

I stood up and condemned the attempted murder of and terrorist attack on Republicans on the baseball diamond. I called it for what it was.

I note a singular lack of such moral outrage and intellectual honesty among the conservative(s) here in this case.

Turn, twist, wiggle, waffle, deflect, distract, dodge.

Buckley, Goldwater and Reagan would weep....
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 17:32   #9229 (permalink)
 
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Cazalet33,

The "absurdly, over bloated MIC" is now at its smallest size, in terms of US GDP, since the '30s. So, there's that.

GF
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 18:50   #9230 (permalink)
 
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Worth watching, thanks Hempy.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 19:07   #9231 (permalink)
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There is a major reversal of cause and effect going on in the US media. President Trump isn't a factor in the cause of this - President Trump is a result of this. The cause is deeper and more inchoate - and looking at the symptoms rather than the cause doesn't cure the problem.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 00:23   #9232 (permalink)
 
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Every one of us "conservative" sorts here has condemned this murderous act.

Yet you lot ramble on about "everyone who supports him" and "you're all a bunch of neonazis too". I suppose that's what we get if your source of news is BBC and CNN.

It's no wonder we get fed up with fake news. Besides which I have no idea who or what is an "alt-righter".
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 01:30   #9233 (permalink)
 
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We, the US electorate, have now reached a point where a vicious murder by a idiot who professes Nazi beliefs but couldn't make it past US Army basic training is a basis for scoring political points and a means to frame peoples' beliefs in the harshest manner possible.

We are now way too deep in identity politics, tribalism, whatever term you want to use instead of the American ideal of judging by "the content of your character". Only individuals matter and they all matter equally.

GF
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 02:23   #9234 (permalink)
 
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Social media videos and images showed police escorted Kessler, a so-called “alt-right” activist affiliated with Saturday’s deadly rally, away from the press conference he set up outside Charlottesville City Hall as he was swarmed by a group protesting him.
So an alt-right leader is a sniveling coward (who could have guessed) who runs away when exposed and confronted by Americans not willing to let their country be take racists. He is the cliche Nazi from the 40's movies. The Bogarts are the ant-Trumpers.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 07:15   #9235 (permalink)
 
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I think it is unfair that the supposed alt-right protesters have been fired from their jobs. Some idiot is using twitter to splash their names around. At least they had the balls to show their faces and not wear balaclavas.

They should sue the asses off their former employers who broke their contracts!
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 13:50   #9236 (permalink)
 
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Besides which I have no idea who or what is an "alt-righter".
Ask Steve Bannon, he can tell you...
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 14:41   #9237 (permalink)
 
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Every one of us "conservative" sorts here has condemned this murderous act.
What you (collective "you") have not done is condemn the murderous philosophy behind the act. In clear and unambiguous language.

It's not hard...

Quote:
As a Republican/conservative, I espouse the spirit of Lincoln and the words of The Declaration of Independence, that all humans are created equal. And the Biblical and Christian avowal that all humans are brothers and sisters.

There is no place whatsoever in Republican/Conservatism for philosophies that contradict those American values. And that includes the anti-American belief that the white race, or any particular race, is superior to others, whether it is espoused through organizations, or held in private. We are not the party of that belief, and will not succor it with words, nor represent its agenda in governing. We will, in fact, oppose it at every opportunity.

And because we disavow moral relativism, we do not and will not stoop to judge or defend our own actions and ideas based on "what the other side does," but rather on our own moral first principles of freedom, equality, justice and the rule of law.

Last edited by pattern_is_full; 14th Aug 2017 at 14:58.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 14:55   #9238 (permalink)
 
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This subject is like guns.

The solution is to keep the nutters from them

So where is the law that protects free speech and bans nutters espousing free speech on either side?

Until we accommodate the differences regarding our opinions in this I fear that it will never end.

I doubt that any president alone can solve this without spreading more flames.

Obama didn't solve it and Trump isn't gonna solve it either. So why even discuss this in a political light?

The solution is us
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 15:00   #9239 (permalink)
 
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There is a major reversal of cause and effect going on in the US media. President Trump isn't a factor in the cause of this - President Trump is a result of this. The cause is deeper and more inchoate - and looking at the symptoms rather than the cause doesn't cure the problem.
By most measures, there exist at the fringes of both the right right and the left left approx. 300,000 extreme people, ten percent of whom are actually quite dangerous.

I accuse both parties of ignoring "cause" and perpetuating the "effects" for political traction. IOW, symptoms are the currency of politics, and are used and abused to sustain power.

If symptoms are not present, they are invented (Russian Meddling, etc.). Causes are mentioned only if someone can be blamed.

Mother's milk of American politics: marginalization, slander, libel, propaganda, "opposition research". Obama, the paragon of "community organizer" was a world class practitioner: "Divide and divide", stir the pot, create an enemy, and offer to "fight" for the (fill in the blank) cause.

In two weeks, the political heathen, Trump has accomplished more in North Korea than Obama, Bush, and Clinton.

See, he is too inexperienced to follow the formula. The preceding Presidents saw in North Korea an asset to be "milked". I think Trump recognized the situation for what it is, and went after a solution. Keep it up.

No wonder the usual suspects on the Hill hate him. He is threatening the establishment's process of perpetuation by inaction.
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Old 14th Aug 2017, 15:26   #9240 (permalink)
 
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It certainly raises eyebrows when the press and others apply names such as supremacist, nazi and fascist etc. to a religious or ethnic group whose members race represents the majority of that country's population and whose forefathers founded that nation specifically for the exclusive benefit of that group and to the exclusion of other races and ethnicities. Applying such names is an attempt to demonize that groups right to exist and inhibit their ability to run their country as they alone see fit is in itself a racist and intolerant act that should be, and has been, called out for its implied hate of that particular majority group. Laws should be passed to punish the people who hurl such defaming insults at their victims.
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