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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:07   #61 (permalink)
 
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Tom wrote:

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Ah not at all, entry to the EU is an SNP policy. Following Independence government elections will take place. Whichever government is elected would need to advance and carry the case for EU membership. I hope we pursue a different route.

Tom
Please correct me if I'm wrong, here, but I thought that there were only two significant parties in Scotland, Labour and the SNP. AFAICS, both are supporters of the EU, so how the hell would an independent Scotland not want to join the EU? By definition, the majority of the elected members of the Scottish Parliament are pro-Europe, so no matter what the minority of anti-Europe, but pro-independence, voters think, a vote for independence is, de facto, a vote for EU membership.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:11   #62 (permalink)
 
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It wa a genuine question seldom but if you don't want to share your thoughts fair enough.

Tom

They will simply head south of the border as per the announcement of Ms Sturgeon as an iScotland wants to be N Free, or doesn't it
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:18   #63 (permalink)
 
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The political disposition post independence will not necessarily reflect the political disposition now - that is one hell of an assumption you made there VP. I also have the quaint notion that political parties are there to represent the electorate and not the other way about. Now I haven't said that there is a ground swell of anti EU feeling in Scotland - on the contrary. I only said my personal hope is that we never join the EU. I've made that point several times here, I am not fan of the EU. It is the singular constant of the SNP's indie proposal that I struggle to accept - why leave a relatively successful union to join fully a much larger and untested one as an independent country. Maybe with the reality of independence post 18 Sep and once we see the condition the EU place on Scotland's membership there will be such common though. I live in hope and recognise that it is that.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:19   #64 (permalink)
 
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They will simply head south of the border as per the announcement of Ms Sturgeon as an iScotland wants to be N Free, or doesn't it
Ok seldom, my mistake.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:21   #65 (permalink)

 
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Tom
"It is the singular constant of the SNP's indie proposal that I struggle to accept - why leave a relatively successful union to join fully a much larger and untested one as an independent country."


That is a very interesting point. Especially as they already get whatever "benefits" that come from the EU
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:24   #66 (permalink)
 
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Yes 500N but the driver for independence is wider than, finance, benefits, shared history, access to Dr Who and Eastenders etc.

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That is a very interesting point. Especially as they already get whatever "benefits" that come from the EU
Nor would the prevailing conditions of our present EU membership prevail. Ergo I would like the opportunity to decide afresh in the reality of independence and the entry conditions being placed upon us. Only seems reasonable to me. That is why I do not agree with the present line from the SNP on the EU. Apart from the fact that I detest the institution as wholly undemocratic and corrupt.

and they are a bunch of eruo jobsworths too.

Tom

Last edited by TomJoad; 16th Jun 2014 at 21:15.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:32   #67 (permalink)

 
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"Apart from the fact that I detest the institution as wholly undemocratic and corrupt."


That makes two of us.

And you can add "jobsworths" to the list as I reckon they create rules just to keep people in a job !
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:41   #68 (permalink)
 
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500N,

Done, with pleasure

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:48   #69 (permalink)
 
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There doesn't seem to be any case being put forward by any Yes campaign supporters for Scotland to not be a part of the EU post-independence. In fact, every single bit of pro-independence campaigning I've seen has stressed that a independent Scotland will be in the EU.

So, as I mentioned previously, by voting for independence then you are voting for EU membership, as, like it or not, that is what the majority of pro-independence supporters seem to want, and in the case of the SNP, are relying on, as their economic estimates are based on an independent Scotland being an EU member (even to the extent that they seem to be refusing to accept the EU statement that they would need to apply anew for membership).
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:58   #70 (permalink)
 
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every single bit of pro-independence campaigning I've seen has stressed that a independent Scotland will be in the EU.


If the don't join the EU they don't have a bank, the alternative is the with the BOE pulling all the levers......................
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:15   #71 (permalink)
 
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Whiskey warning, bizarrely from Oz by the looks of it.

SCOTCHPOCALYPSE: How The Upcoming Referendum Could Harm Scotland's Famous Distilleries | Business Insider

Check the size of the export markets - who knew France get through nearly twice as much Scotch as any one else!
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:22   #72 (permalink)
 
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No lines in the sand where politics are concerned VP - remember the promises pre election made by the present UK government (conservative and lib dem elements). In, the final analysis, the electorate's opinion regarding future direction of EU membership which will inform the Scottish government's. That will only be known with the reality of independence and with appraisal of the then stated EU entry conditions. Like I said, no lines in the sand with politics and that is not the preserve of Scotland - seems to me time will tell.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:23   #73 (permalink)
 
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If the don't join the EU they don't have a bank, the alternative is the with the BOE pulling all the levers......................
I'd take it over the EU.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:25   #74 (permalink)
 
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The Balvenie Double Wood , now there is one smooth whisky.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:32   #75 (permalink)
 
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Possible tax changes...

Alex Salmond promises local income tax for an independent Scotland - Telegraph

Could be popular with low earners, less so with middle classes.

Ironically, this replaces council tax with something a bit more like the poll tax....I didn't think that was very popular last time.

Plus I didn't realise Alex had used taxpayers money to cover things up before the EU legal advice issue - he spent 103,000 trying to prevent anyone revealing the impact of such an 'income tax for local services' policy, which it seems creates funding black holes during recession (unlike council tax).
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:32   #76 (permalink)
 
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Even more bizarre is the basis for the written constitution that the SNP are putting forward as a draft for that which may apply post-independence.

They will be non-nuclear, so Faslane goes South (probably back to Devonport, at a guess), with a lot of job losses round Helensburgh, and even as far away as Greenock (assuming that the ferry still brings Greenock workers to Helensburgh/Faslane, as it used to years ago)

They want to retain the Queen as Head of State. How on earth does that fit with all the anti-Royalist rhetoric from the dominant Left in the Scottish Parliament?

They also want to put the obvious things they have now (like a right to education) into this constitution, which seems fair enough, but as it is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever remove the present right to education I can't see any reason to include it in a constitution (other than trying to make a political point out of it.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:46   #77 (permalink)
 
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Even more bizarre is the basis for the written constitution that the SNP are putting forward as a draft for that which may apply post-independence.

They will be non-nuclear, so Faslane goes South (probably back to Devonport, at a guess), with a lot of job losses round Helensburgh, and even as far away as Greenock (assuming that the ferry still brings Greenock workers to Helensburgh/Faslane, as it used to years ago)

They want to retain the Queen as Head of State. How on earth does that fit with all the anti-Royalist rhetoric from the dominant Left in the Scottish Parliament?

They also want to put the obvious things they have now (like a right to education) into this constitution, which seems fair enough, but as it is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever remove the present right to education I can't see any reason to include it in a constitution (other than trying to make a political point out of it.

Really VP how can you rail against the concept of a written constitution. Is that really what you are saying are you against the concept, setting aside the politics for a moment.

With respect to Faslane - the policy is well documented and generally well supported by the majority - nothing new there, inclusion in the constitution just affirms the commitment. As for HM Queen, you really have missed the tempo of both politics and public opinion here. There is a ground swell of opinion in favour of HM Queen Elizabeth 1 as sovereign head of Scotland. Yes as in England, there are some who are anti Monarchy, but they remain a minority. In any respect is it not only right and proper that we are able to choose, as Australia and Canada have so (or may) considered - or would you deny that as well. Come on lay the party politics aside.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:49   #78 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose
If the don't join the EU they don't have a bank, the alternative is the with the BOE pulling all the levers......................


I'd take it over the EU.

Tom

Not exactly Independence tho is it........................
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:53   #79 (permalink)
 
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They also want to put the obvious things they have now (like a right to education) into this constitution, which seems fair enough, but as it is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever remove the present right to education I can't see any reason to include it in a constitution (other than trying to make a political point out of it.

As for above - what???? It's entirely up to a constituted independent state to place what is sees fit in its constitution. It is above party politics, who are they, and who are they trying to make a political point to!!!! I wonder if the USA are so concerned about their constitution regarding party politics - no expert but I suspect it is seen as well above the realms of politics.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 21:55   #80 (permalink)
 
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A warning from the west:

Scots will suffer if the vote is No, experts on Quebec warn | Herald Scotland
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