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Old 16th Jun 2014, 16:46   #41 (permalink)
 
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Oh Happy Days - the longer we remain out of the EU the better

Tom

Tom if you look at what ORAC posted there is a bigger picture, we know you like those, for you to consider.


If as ORAC suggests


A Central bank as a lender of last resort is required for membership of the EU....


and the BOE refuses to grant you any sort of Lender of Last resort facilities.......


that could be a little problematic don't you think?
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 16:54   #42 (permalink)
 
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Sorry seldom didn't mean to annoy you just commenting that if as ORAC pointed out a central bank is required by the EU then entry to EU is barred, without a central bank - simples. I am more than happy with that given my dislike of EU membership.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 17:15   #43 (permalink)
 
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Sorry seldom didn't mean to annoy you just commenting that if as ORAC pointed out a central bank is required by the EU then entry to EU is barred, without a central bank - simples. I am more than happy with that given my dislike of EU membership.

Bigger picture Tom, bigger picture, remember you actually want Independence
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 17:20   #44 (permalink)
 
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Indeed I do, and removing the EU from the equation makes it easier, As you say, bigger picture seldom, small hand big map.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 17:27   #45 (permalink)
 
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As you know Tom Im an engineer not an economist but I would have thought if the banks went bust then everyone who had deposits in them would lose their money.
Bailing out depositors (at least up to the legal limits) would have been much cheaper than keeping zombie banks going for decades.

The problem is that the first major nation to let their banks fail would have brought down the entire global financial system, and no-one wanted to be the first to do that. Plus it let Labour nationalize some of the banks, which they've just been aching to do forever.

Oh, yeah, and all those people who owed 200k pounds on flats that were suddenly worth 20k would never have voted Labour again.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 17:29   #46 (permalink)
 
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and removing the EU from the equation makes it easier,

How are you removing the EU from the picture Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 17:39   #47 (permalink)
 
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I really don't care what the EU does with itself seldom, maybe it will photobomb the picture

And if Cameron is as good as his word (a big if) then the rest of the UK will get to share the opportunity all over again. Happy days indeed.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 18:43   #48 (permalink)
 
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Some Trolls will be feeling a wee bit nervous........

BBC News - Scottish independence: Police examine online JK Rowling abuse
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 18:47   #49 (permalink)
 
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As I understand it, by voting for independence Scots are voting to apply for EU membership, as that seems to be the SNPs game plan Why else would they keep trying to persuade the EU that they should retain membership (against the EU rules) unless their policy was to be in the EU?

The pound sterling thing was done to death in the deleted thread, as was the EU membership application requirements. The bottom line is that Scotland will need its own currency during the interim period between it becoming independent and its application to join the EU being accepted, and that currency will need to be supported by a "bank of last resort". Sure as hell the BofE is not going to offer that service post-independence, at least not without some onerous conditions.

As stated may times in the other thread, the pro-independence supporters have been unable to produce hard, verifiable, evidence of the start-up costs, and whenever challenged have given generalisations that make me feel that:

a) They don't have a clue what the real costs are, so are being a bit coy about them.

b) They know full well that the costs are high and are deliberately holding back on making them public.

The whole thing (on both sides) seems amateurish to me. The SNP just don't seem credible as the rulers of a new, proud and independent nation. The "better together" lot just don't seem to have put any real thought into thair campaign, and seem to be of the view that it doesn't really matter to rUK anyway.

I'm inclined to think that it really doesn't matter much to rUK what Scotland decides to do. My gut feeling is that Scotland is almost certainly a net drain on UK resources no (even if it may not have been at the peak of North Sea oil production) and that most here in the rUK couldn't really care less about the referendum, they are more concerned about day to day issues that have greater impact on their life.

If, as I suspect, Scottish independence means having to do a currency exchange when visiting, then I think I'll be put off from making the regular trips back that I currently take, as it'll just be another hassle to add to the long journey. One thing's for sure, the anti-English feeling that's being promulgated by some in the pro-independence camp is not exactly going giving the Scottish tourist industry any support.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:07   #50 (permalink)
 
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As I understand it, by voting for independence Scots are voting to apply for EU membership, as that seems to be the SNPs game plan Why else would they keep trying to persuade the EU that they should retain membership (against the EU rules) unless their policy was to be in the EU?
Ah not at all, entry to the EU is an SNP policy. Following Independence government elections will take place. Whichever government is elected would need to advance and carry the case for EU membership. I hope we pursue a different route.

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:11   #51 (permalink)
 
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As I understand it, by voting for independence Scots are voting to apply for EU membership, as that seems to be the SNPs game plan Why else would they keep trying to persuade the EU that they should retain membership (against the EU rules) unless their policy was to be in the EU?

The pound sterling thing was done to death in the deleted thread, as was the EU membership application requirements. The bottom line is that Scotland will need its own currency during the interim period between it becoming independent and its application to join the EU being accepted, and that currency will need to be supported by a "bank of last resort". Sure as hell the BofE is not going to offer that service post-independence, at least not without some onerous conditions.

As stated may times in the other thread, the pro-independence supporters have been unable to produce hard, verifiable, evidence of the start-up costs, and whenever challenged have given generalisations that make me feel that:

a) They don't have a clue what the real costs are, so are being a bit coy about them.

b) They know full well that the costs are high and are deliberately holding back on making them public.

The whole thing (on both sides) seems amateurish to me. The SNP just don't seem credible as the rulers of a new, proud and independent nation. The "better together" lot just don't seem to have put any real thought into thair campaign, and seem to be of the view that it doesn't really matter to rUK anyway.

I'm inclined to think that it really doesn't matter much to rUK what Scotland decides to do. My gut feeling is that Scotland is almost certainly a net drain on UK resources no (even if it may not have been at the peak of North Sea oil production) and that most here in the rUK couldn't really care less about the referendum, they are more concerned about day to day issues that have greater impact on their life.

If, as I suspect, Scottish independence means having to do a currency exchange when visiting, then I think I'll be put off from making the regular trips back that I currently take, as it'll just be another hassle to add to the long journey. One thing's for sure, the anti-English feeling that's being promulgated by some in the pro-independence camp is not exactly going giving the Scottish tourist industry any support.

Nicely summated on all points. The Nats know full well what all of this is going to cost but the figures if published would probably be their undoing, the 3% borrowing figure should definitely be giving pause for thought.


As regards the No Camp I have always been of the opinion that Westminster are really in the driving seat in this process.


A No vote, we keep the Oil and the Devo Max promises will certainly change the Scots mind set as to who they want holding the purse strings.


A Yes vote and because of the mass of uncertainty with regards to the EU, Currency etc means that they really do have all the major cards to play during the inevitable negotiations. If ORAC is right then imagine the things Salmond etc are going to have to give away to get what they need from a currency deal?
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:26   #52 (permalink)
 
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A Yes vote and because of the mass of uncertainty with regards to the EU, Currency etc means that they really do have all the major cards to play during the inevitable negotiations. If ORAC is right then imagine the things Salmond etc are going to have to give away to get what they need from a currency deal?
So what do you think would be surrendered seldom?

Tom
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:30   #53 (permalink)
 
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So what do you think would be surrendered seldom?

Tom

If ORAC is correct and iScotland needs a lender of last resort I have no doubt Oil would be back on the table and quite likely a big chunk of your 9%
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:33   #54 (permalink)
 
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And trident?
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:35   #55 (permalink)

 
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Tom

Was just going to say the same thing.



Or, the rUK could let iScotland fail, then move in and
re annex it for free
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:38   #56 (permalink)
 
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lol........
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:39   #57 (permalink)
 
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Sounds very much like what I had imagined a federal solution would look like. Hey ho.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:50   #58 (permalink)
 
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And trident?

Why, do you want it? Best you give Nicola a quick call about her recent promises
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:00   #59 (permalink)

 
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Reminds me of the "anti Nuclear" stance here in Aus in the 80's and 90's.
The local councils who were dominated by the lefties put up signs alonside roads saying "Camberwell is a Nuclear Free Suburb".

They even managed to put one outside a huge hospital but of course no one told them that Hospitals produce one hell of a lot of N waste !
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 20:05   #60 (permalink)
 
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Why, do you want it? Best you give Nicola a quick call about her recent promises
It wa a genuine question seldom but if you don't want to share your thoughts fair enough.

Tom
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