PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 1st Sep 2013, 15:40   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: CYZV
Age: 67
Posts: 1,182
Yachts trapped in Northwest Passage by.... ice

Sail-World.com : North West Passage blocked with ice - yachts caught
They're probably waiting for a bit of global warming.
pigboat is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 15:48   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 49
Posts: 4,111
Always expect the unexpected.

I like the wording in the article.

"Since one of the Canadian Coast Guard’s prime missions is to provide icebreaking for commercial shipping it will be interesting to see if Canada Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Government views this as an opportunity for good public relations to help recreational yachts transiting the Northwest Passage."

Set a precedent and it could prove a costly one.
500N is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 15:52   #3 (permalink)
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 278
That's no joke. Read about the fate of Sir John Franklin's expedition in the Erebus and Terror, trying to get through the N W Passage.

The Erebus and Terror were so named because they were 'bomb ketches' - ships with hulls specially strengthened to take the forces of large calibre mortars mounted on their decks. They were supposed to be hard for the ice to crush. They weren't. Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive. Their remains and diaries were found years later.

Last edited by RJM; 1st Sep 2013 at 16:25.
RJM is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 16:00   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 49
Posts: 4,111
I know it's not a joke. That is one heck of a lot of yatchs that
are stuck. I see it says that some of them have already been
abandoned. Does that mean out into harbour or just left for the
ice to crush them over winter ?

But this discussion occurs every time someone needs help
doing something extreme / some extreme sport - well, it
does here in Aus because it's normally the Gov't and Essential
services that haul them out of the shyte.

In our case in Aus, it is often rescuing sailors on round the world
races in the ocean way down south because it falls in our area for SAR.
500N is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 16:15   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 301
Spent a couple of years up there in the NWT at a diamond mine 150m SW of Bathurst Inlet... Diavik. Remote does not even begin to describe it.

Summer would finally arrive around mid-June (despite total daylight far ahead of that), but by mid-August we would be getting snow flurries again.

Experienced my personal windchill record there in 2010... -65c. Actual temp was -56c. To be honest, you can't really feel the difference to -30c, you just DIE a lot faster.

If anyone has abandoned their ships, they should stay on the coast. With luck they might bump into a few Inuit. The interior is a starvation-zone.
er340790 is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 16:41   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 250
Wasn't the media claiming a few days ago that the arctic had record low ice coverage or something?
MG23 is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 16:46   #7 (permalink)
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 70
Posts: 1,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by er340790
If anyone has abandoned their ships, they should stay on the coast. With luck they might bump into a few Inuit.
Shirley you would carry a bicycle onboard in case of such eventualities?
G-CPTN is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 17:37   #8 (permalink)
More bang for your buck
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: land of the clanger
Age: 72
Posts: 3,520
It's what happens when you believe the Watermelons propaganda.
green granite is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 17:40   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Temporarily unsure of my position
Posts: 93
What is everyone fretting about?


Don't you know that GLOBAL WARMING means that these yachts really need to be supplied with sun beds?

Ice in The Northwest Passage is surely a thing of there past - if not, I think we should be told
Flypro is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 18:07   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 32
Quote:
The Erebus and Terror were so named because they were 'bomb ketches' - ships with hulls specially strengthened to take the forces of large calibre mortars mounted on their decks. They were supposed to be hard for the ice to crush. They weren't. Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive. Their remains and diaries were found years later.
Quote:
Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive.
...and each other if the evidence uncovered by Dr Rae is to be believed. He was written out of the narrative by the establishment and the RN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rae_(explorer)
Little cloud is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 18:09   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,918
pigboat,

Heh.... looks just like the PPRuNe flotilla ....
mixture is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 18:42   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 72
Posts: 485
From Paul Homewood's homepage:

Quote:
During 2003 to 2008, the mass gain of the Antarctic ice sheet from snow accumulation exceeded the mass loss from ice discharge by 49 Gt/yr (2.5% of input), as derived from ICESat l@ser measurements of elevation change.
The net gain (86 Gt/yr) over the West Antarctic (WA) and East Antarctic ice sheets (WA and EA) is essentially unchanged from revised results for 1992 to 2001 from ERS radar altimetry.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2012013235.pdf

Zwally goes on to say that “a slow increase in snowfall with climate warming, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.” But, of course, we don’t know how these rates of accumulation and melting compare to previous decades, so this is pure speculation on Zwally’s part.

There is nothing to suggest that this is not a normal, natural process seen many times in the past.

So, in Antarctica, we have:-

Increasing ice sheet mass
Advancing glaciers
Increasing sea ice
Global warming anyone?
Essentially, global temperatures have temporarily peaked, due to El Niño and the Decadel Oscillation and the planet is now entering a cooling phase. I suggest you sort out your central heating and buy a few more long woolly jumpers.

Last edited by Sunnyjohn; 1st Sep 2013 at 18:43.
Sunnyjohn is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 19:42   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 49
Posts: 4,111
ER34

That doco on the Ice Truckers makes you shiver just watching it.
500N is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 20:27   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 71
Posts: 387
John Rae was an Orcadian, his tomb in in St Magnus cathedral in Kirkwall
ricardian is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 20:47   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: CYZV
Age: 67
Posts: 1,182
Quote:
Does that mean out into harbour or just left for the
ice to crush them over winter ?
There aren't a whole lot of settlements up there to leave a boat. Right at the top there at the mouth of Prince Regent Inlet there's Arctic Bay/Nanisivik. Nanisivik has a deep water harbor from an iron ore mine that was open years back. Further up on that little island just outside the red circle, at the 10 o'clock position, there's Resolute Bay. Down that peninsula that juts up in the center of that map there's Taloyoak and further down there's Gjoa Haven, where Amundsen overwintered. For those stuck further east, east of Cape Bathurst, there's a couple of settlements along the McKenzie River delta, Cambridge Bay and Tuktoyaktuk. Those are the only places up there that I know of, where a boat could possibly be pulled out of the water. Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains. There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed.
pigboat is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 20:59   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Peterborough
Age: 60
Posts: 126
Looks like these guys didn't make it.

MainStream Last First

Rowing the NWP to prove GW. I don't think so!
uffington sb is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 21:05   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 49
Posts: 4,111
"Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains."

That's what I was getting at.

"There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed."

Good idea.

We have had Tony Bullimore, Isabelle Autissier and Thierry Dubios
all rescued way down south and often at short notice. Xmas / New Year seems to be the period for these things to occur !!!
500N is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 23:01   #18 (permalink)
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 338
Quote:
Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains. There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed.
Exactly. Too many 'adventurers' out there relying on Coast Guard rescue when the brown meets the spin. Let em freeze I say, daft kfecks, my tax dollar is needed elsewhere.

Seems to me, when rescue is readily available, lots of '@rse me softly' courage suddenly shows up to grab the limelight.
bugg smasher is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 23:08   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 49
Posts: 4,111
So, what is the consensus ?

Should the Coast Guard do a goodwill PR rescue before it turns into a suvival rescue or
should they be taken to port and let them hole up there for 6 months ?

I can imagine the ice flow might have moved in pretty quickly with the right
prevailing winds but does that negate the sailors responsibility to plan well
and make sure all avenues are covered ?


In Australia's case, we don't have a Coast Guard, it is the Navy that
does all the rescues.

Last edited by 500N; 1st Sep 2013 at 23:10.
500N is offline   Reply
Old 1st Sep 2013, 23:09   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 236
Quote:
Let em freeze I say
Ah come off it bugg. If your turbine was to wheeze off the Grand Banks (well south of that damned passage I know) or anywhere you'd like to think somebody would come to look for the wreckage, no? Least of all if it would stop the bull on R&N eh?

Caco
Cacophonix is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:46.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network