However, opinion within the police service has historically shown itself to be opposed to the idea of routinely arming officers, with a 2006 a Police Federation survey of 47,000 officers finding 82% opposed it. Fahy argued that officers could not be sent armed to "hundreds" of routine callouts.
I doubt if the mood has changed hugely in six years. Does anyone have any idea of the numbers of police routinely armed in big cities ? I'd guess at somewhere between 2% and 5%.
I also have some reservations about arming the police because even in this area they have shown significant incompetence over extended periods.
Numerous examples of which the worst has to be the "firearms-instructor" who shot a pupil in a classroom with a Magnum because he hadn't checked it was unloaded (and if I'm not mistaken he also aimed it at the pupil ). Last year one officer killed another in a practice of arresting a suspect in a car because there was a live round instead of a blank in the weapon. Believe the investigation showed all ammunition was kept together in a biscuit-tin (!) : even from someone not involved in firearms, I see that as stupidity beyond belief.
Last edited by AlpineSkier; 19th Sep 2012 at 07:04.
I also have some reservations about arming the police because even in this area they have shown significant incompetence over extended periods.
As with all trades: practice makes perfect
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Something should be done about seemingly automatically giving bail to these subhumans even those who are nicked for very serious crimes.
With you on this one, Drapes. I don't understand why bail does not need to be posted in cash upfront, as in the US. Far more difficult to arrange a large sum of money if you have a certain reputation. Agreed, the suspect might still jump bail, but then there's the bounty hunters who usually are less scrupulous in their methods than your average debt collector
The Malaysian police have an efficient way of dealing with armed gangsters. Usually the gangsters will be cornered in a car and surrounded by half a dozen Federal Reserve Unit officers armed with M16s. The gangsters always open fire with a pistol, forcing the FRU officers to empty all half dozen M16 magazines into the vehicle. The TV film crew arrives on the scene and films the results in all their gory detail (including the gang's weapons) to be shown on the evening news bulletins. The municipal authorities close the event by towing away the car and flushing the mess down the drain and everyone carries on with their normal business. There is never any call for an independent investigation - in Malaysia, armed criminals don't have Human Rights.
Shows the "soft" nature of the British legal system, whereby Cregan had been arrested a few months ago in respect of the first Short murder, but released on bail......to kill three more people.
I would hope that the other persons arrested in the last few weeks/months in respect of both the Short murders and allowed out on bail, have been rounded up and locked up after yesterday.
It is clear folly to allow people suspected of murder in these circumstances to be free on bail.
Also, has anyone asked the New Charter Housing Association, who own the house in Hattersley, as to when one of their officials last checked, what should have been an empty house, to ensure it was secure and not being used as a squat?
Also, has anyone asked the New Charter Housing Association, who own the house in Hattersley, as to when one of their officials last checked, what should have been an empty house, to ensure it was secure and not being used as a squat?
They are probably more vigilant when it comes to checking whether there are any anti-Labour election posters on display.
Greatly appreciated by one Anders Behring Breivik, as demonstrated. Enough in the Breivik report to cause a major rethink of Norwegian police fundamentals.
The police were armed, fundamentals broke down. Per
That's true among his contemporaries and the young chavs he will have achieved godlike status,among the criminal underclass your social standing depends on what level of crime you involved with,twockers and shoplifters are the lowest burglars higher up the ladder, armed robbers and drug barons aristocrats, and killers of anyone in authority outright royalty.
Last edited by tony draper; 19th Sep 2012 at 09:52.
Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police Sir Peter Fahy defended the decision to release Cregan.
He said: “It is absolutely normal in the course of complex crime enquiries that when people are arrested there are occasions where there is insufficient evidence available for them to be charged.
“In those circumstances suspects have to be released on bail as there are strict time limits covering how long suspects can be held in custody without charge. That is exactly what happened in this case.”
There you have it. The police were tied by the regulations laid down by the legislators. Had they kept him in custody a lawyer would have been screaming about his rights and demanding compensation.
Although it is slightly surprising that such an apparently Neanderthal thug could avoid leaving a trail of evidence (at least to justify charging him), would you rather that the police banged anyone up they suspected of a crime without having the evidence to back it up? It has been noticeable (as far as I have been able to see from the media coverage) that there doesn't seem to have been any suggestion that the release on bail was despite a mass of evidence against him. I suspect that if he was released purely because they only had 98% of the evidence they needed this would have been shouted from the rooftops by now.
Despite this being an isolated occurence it is time that a long hard look was taken at the legal situation in the UK. Maybe the introduction of the Scottish, "Not Proven" (we know you did it, but can't quite prove it) verdict in the court would be an easy first step. Interestingly the government, despite proclaiming itself to be tough on crime (one of the cornerstones of the Whorey Manifesto IIRC) SFA seems to be being done about it except giving camerloon a further chance to flap his gums on tv As for theresa May, she's about as much use as a chocolate tampon.
edited to add.
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would you rather that the police banged anyone up they suspected of a crime without having the evidence to back it up? It
Kent police have been doing that for years. I once spent nearly 24 hours in Gravesend nick. My crime, being in a pub when the police raided it looking for drugs.
“In those circumstances suspects have to be released on bail as there are strict time limits covering how long suspects can be held in custody without charge. That is exactly what happened in this case.” There you have it. The police were tied by the regulations laid down by the legislators.
Ah... So in the case of the innocent couple who faced four men, one masked, in their bedroom and dispatched two of them with a shotgun it was ok to ignore the "strict time limits" because the Chief Constable was away for the weekend but in the case of a most probably guilty bastard the rules must be followed to the letter.*
It sickens me that the bad now have the advantage...
*Yes, I'm aware that in order to get a conviction the guilty tt can't be given any technicality... That's wrong too!!!
Cregan killed two Police Women who were unarmed, turned himself in to the Plod, who after doing a Crime Scene Search, got all the results back from Forensics in less than 24 hours, decided there was insufficient evidence of any kind whatsoever to hold the guy, they just cut him loose with an admonition to stay in touch or something?
Now folks....if you cannot hold him....there is no way you are going to convict him in Court.....so I have to think then...this guy is back on the street free as a Bird.
I would have to ask what kinds of forensics tests they did checking for traces of gunpowder, explosives, DNA, finger prints, polygraphs, interviews, checking out his Alibi, and right on down the line.
There is no way you can investigate the scene in 24 hours much less get back the results of Lab tests, chase down all the witnesses and interview them. Then add in his claim of innocence.....I guess he did that or did he say "I Done it!" now prove it to the Plod?
There is a lot I do not understand about the UK system of policing and judiicial system.....surely it is not as it sounds to us over here in the Wild West.
I am with AA here.....the two different results for these two events boggles my mind!
[QUOTE=SASless;7422363]So if I am following this correctly.
Cregan killed two Police Women who were unarmed, turned himself in to the Plod, who after doing a Crime Scene Search, got all the results back from Forensics in less than 24 hours, decided there was insufficient evidence of any kind whatsoever to hold the guy, they just cut him loose with an admonition to stay in touch or something?
t can't be given any technicality... That's wrong too!!!
