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Old 19th Sep 2012, 12:53   #401 (permalink)
 
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rg

Define "rebellion in Libya"... You are writing from a position of black/white. It aint that way.

You cannot rely on American concepts of "loyalty" and "gratitude" in this region.

Libya is a word made up by white guys in the 9teens. You should step back, and to the side, and reassess.

Burdick/Lederer. It is dated, but "The Ugly American"

Without the French, we would all speak with English accents to this day.

They have a word, all too foreign on this thread, finesse.....

How many citizens of "Libya" think of the AlQ as Washington did of the French?

I don't know either....

Last edited by Lyman; 19th Sep 2012 at 12:56.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 12:57   #402 (permalink)
 
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But that is OK, neither does Barry Obama.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 13:34   #403 (permalink)
 
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RGB......exactly to which of these "North Africans" that kicked the Rangers/SF/Delta Force guys do you refer?

Are you actually referring to the Somali's?

If you are....I submit they are not "North Africans" at all.

Our guys got their asses kicked because of some very simple mistakes made by their Leadership....and paid the price in blood for those blunders. A lot of very brave Men fought one hell of a fight against tremendous odds once they lost the initiative after the "Skinnys" brought down some helicopters and there was no back up plan set up for that contingency.

The raid that kicked that day off was done in daylight....was the fifth or sixth done using the exact same method of operation thus they had become predictable. The Skinnys had adapted and improved their tactics....we had not.

From there it all went down hill quick. It was then up to the Troops on the ground to find a way to extract themselves from the middle of a large City filled with hostile troops.

If Body Count determines the Winner.....we won that day.

But as you recall...that pretty much put an end to our operations there and in short order the US Military departed. I was there when they left.....and it was a lonely feeling knowing they were gone and it now the Syrians, Egyptians, Pakistani's and Moroccans that were going to protect us. Fortunately there were some Aussies there still including some SAS guys.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 13:43   #404 (permalink)
 
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SASless: yes, I was referring to Somlia as you so correctly surmised.

No need to inform me of what went down during Operation Gothic Serpent. Or, as the Somalis refer to it as "The Day of the Rangers".

I am intimately aware of what happened on 3-4 October 1993.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:52   #405 (permalink)
 
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rgbrock

"Bullshit. Total bullshit. American businesses outsource to other countries, like China and India, not to remain competitive or to cut labor costs but due to the bottom line i.e., profit margins.
The more profits that can be made, the more sacrifices the labor pool in the US make. "


In general I agree, however for some reason business / people in general
seem to have this problem that if they buy it for less they sell it for less.

And that principle occurred in spades with the move to manufacturing in China.

Profits were probably higher but not as high as they could have been
if sell prices had stayed up as well.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 15:56   #406 (permalink)
 
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"Fortunately there were some Aussies there still including some SAS guys."

Who the local rebels learnt very quickly not to eff with !


That was a good example of a good show of force up front
and a don't eff with us attitude and for the rest of the tour
you have the rebels on the back foot.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:15   #407 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Fortunately there were some Aussies there still including some SAS guys.
Isn't the PMC who has the contract to guard the US Consulate in Benghazi owned and/or staffed by (ex-)SAS guys?

Doesn't the name of the firm, Blue Mountain, have something to do with the poem on the front of famous clock tower memorial? So far as I know, it's only the inscriptions on the back of the tower that are classified as Restricted, not the front.

Isn't the verse something from the tale of Hassan of Baghdad, or Hassan's poetic minstrel Ishak, in Flecker's Road to Samarkand play?

At the Gate of the Moon on the edge of Baghdad the Master of the Caravan says to Ishak:

Who are ye in rags and rotten shoes, you dirty-bearded, blocking up the way?

Ishak famously replies:

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go always a little further;
It may be beyond that last
blue mountain barred with snow, across that angry or that glimmering sea, white on a throne or guarded in a cave there lies a Prophet who can understand why men were born.
But surely we are brave, who take the Golden Road to Samarkand
.

Last edited by Low Flier; 19th Sep 2012 at 16:17.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:31   #408 (permalink)
 
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"Profits were probably higher but not as high as they could have been
if sell prices had stayed up as well."

It is called Deflation, and in its way far worse than Inflation. It destroys markets as well as people.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:35   #409 (permalink)
 
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Lyman

Seems to be happening a fair bit lately.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 16:42   #410 (permalink)
 
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The problem will begin to resolve itself when there is nothing left to steal.

The FEDS money will not hit the street, it is going directly to Switzerland and the Caymans.

Bernanke is a very lonely man. Solitary even. And nervous.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 17:52   #411 (permalink)
 
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RGB,

Business is not local now days....too bad but that is what it is.

There is no way to stay in business paying American wage rates....when your competition is foreign based paying far less in labor costs.

Either you go out of business altogether or you change your business model to regain your profitability.

Ask yourself what role government has played in this with Minimum Wage laws, NAFTA, and all the regulations it imposes on American business that foreign competitors do not have to deal with.

It isn't cigar smoking, Top Hat wearing, tycoons in tails making these decisions....just as it is the American consumer who buys the cheapest priced item on the shelf if it is of equal or better quality.

American industry got lazy after WWII....during a period of time when we were the only real indiustrial nation turning out consumer goods. It took years for the rest of the World to recover from the War...and when they did....they started kicking our ass. You recall the success story of Toyota? Japanese TV's and electronics?

This is all our own collective doing....government and business along with the American Consumer.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 18:01   #412 (permalink)
 
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SASless:

There is nothing produced overseas what we as Americans can't produce here.

Businesses don't want to pay American worker salaries because they are higher than overseas, true. But I bet the average American worker is more educated and more skilled than the cheap labor which exists in some overseas labor markets. But by paying a bit more for a better product, the bottom line is effected. And we can't have that.

Yes, government has a lot to do with this, but not all.

Until such time as we bring the jobs back home, the job market will remain what it is: dismal. At best. And this can only happen if a: several government-enacted treaties are stricken, b: companies and corporations modify their business models to ensure the American worker is given first dibs in any American company as far as employment is concerned. c: businesses stop importing cheap labor from overseas and giving them jobs here in the U.S. (And I don't want to hear that song and dance about not having enough qualified applicants here: that's complete and utter horse shit.)
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 18:31   #413 (permalink)
 
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RGB.....I will keep this simple so your Ranger brain can figure it out.

When you go to the rifle range....you and your entire Ranger Company qualifies.....does it matter to the target who fired the bullet? Your Captain, Lieutenant, First Sgt....or the lowest ranking Ranger....the end product is the same....one bullet into the target.

Why do I have to pay Captain's wages when I can pay a Private to do the same task and get the same outcome?

I don't care if you can design, engineer, and manufacture the item....if all I want you to do is pack the crate.

Your logic doesn't work.

When we compete in an international market...we have to compete....and match quality for price that our competition does.

Simple fact.....we cannot compete paying American wages for what Chinese Coolies can do at local wages in China.

We may not like it, we not agree with it, it may be unfair to the American worker but that is life in a nutshell. Costs drive everything in business....get productivity up like ol' Mr. Ford did and the cost of his Model A will drop as it did. They went from 950 Dollars to 295 Dollars when production time went from 14 hours to 1.5 hours each.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 18:37   #414 (permalink)
 
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SASless wrote:

Quote:
Why do I have to pay Captain's wages when I can pay a Private to do the same task and get the same outcome?
Because the Captain will in all likelihood find that range to shoot his target. The private, on the other hand, may not!!!!!
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 20:07   #415 (permalink)
 
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Well the White House today finally admitted the Libyan attack was an act of Terrorism and Al Qaeda is thought to be directly involved.

Rocket Scientists are they not....after all that mumbo jumbo about it being spontaneous and only in response to some crappy video. Why even Susan Rice the Obama Ambassador to the UN told us that quite pointedly, as did Jay Carney, Obama's Mouthpiece.

I guess they finally got the message after everybody else and his brother told them that....and by some who warned them ahead of time...and who now hold four of the attackers.

Now we hear the French...not wishing to be out done are closing 20 of their Embassies so they can run some cartoons of a naked Mohammed!
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 20:55   #416 (permalink)

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so they can run some cartoons of a naked Mohammed!
Hey, at least they are allowing the freedom to show the cartoons, well done I say.

Go France.
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Old 20th Sep 2012, 01:23   #417 (permalink)
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The whole world should be running naked Mohammeds to show its rejection of the bullying, riotous, violent Islamist scourge we are, and have been enduring for the last ten years.
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Old 20th Sep 2012, 01:27   #418 (permalink)
 
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Fine, but I demand he own a pet pig.
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Old 20th Sep 2012, 01:41   #419 (permalink)
 
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Allez les bleus!
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Old 20th Sep 2012, 01:58   #420 (permalink)
 
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If the devil wanted you to worship him,he or one of his evil followers might ask you to show him an angry face and throw rocks at three pillars.
Satan must be pleased when he sees an angry mob with faces contorted with hate of him ,hearts that have learned hate, throwing rocks and stones at three pillars representing his earthly existence in Mecca.
They learn to hate on a pilgrimage to find God.Small wonder they are so quick to rage.
They found hate, not the love of God.
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