In the light of Simon Harwoods aquital of the manslaughter of Ian Tomlinson, the whitewash of Jean Charles de Menezes death and countless others deaths at the hands of the British police over the last few years, is anyone else of the opinion that we are now living in a police state in our country protected by the judiciary ?
And how do you think the police feel watching those hooligans walk free after killing three young people with their car? Swings and roundabouts? Utterly frustrated? Why bother?
Jean Charles de Menezes, was ILLEGALLY in the country, FAILED to obey a legitimate request from the police, attempted to RUN AWAY and had a backpack with wires 'attached/in/visible' entering a high capacity public transport area at a time of high alert...
Rightly or wrongly that he was killed, I think he had quite a lot of input into his death.
Had he been a terrorist and set off a bomb and the police taken no action I wonder if they would have come in for some criticism?
Oh and I thought it was a JURY not a judge or the system that found him not guilty?
HTC
Last edited by herman the crab; 20th Jul 2012 at 01:13.
Wires ? Disobeyed a legitimate request from the police ? Why don't you google Jean Charles de Menezes and read on Wiki for simplicity before writing such uninformed nonsense ?
Mate, I don't give a toss one way or the other, it simply bemuses me that people want to quote and use Wiki entries to make their points. It simply makes them look like plonkers most the time. Anyone with an axe to grind can make an entry, and they aren't always removed. Judicious use only, and potentially at your peril!
So no one else other than you are entitled to an opinion then?
If Jean Charles de Menezes hadn't been ILLEGALLY in the country (of course you chose to ignore that as it wouldn't fit with your views) he may not have run from the police. Or maybe you consider it normal to run from the police?
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And found who exactly not guilty ?
Simon Harwood BY A JURY in the report I read.
I hope you never sit on any jury that judges me, my family or friends...
Orion Man 1) What is a police state, in your view? 2) Don't you think it is rather the judiciary and the penal system which have failed to serve the public rather than the police?
I have lived in three countries which were generally regarded as police states, and spent time in others, I felt considerably safer in those places than I do in the UK.
Police State is the wrong term. Judiciary State would be more accurate.
Both the police and public bring cases which are argued in court. A smart lawyer will use knowledge of parts of the law to get a client off a charge. The judge will strictly follow the letter of the law. If a smart lawyer can use a clause in the law to their advantage the judge and the court has no choice but to acknowledge it.
The police have as little effect on the outcome as the public.
herman is indeed correct; PC Harwood was acquitted of manslaughter by a Jury, not a Judge, or the police or the CPS.
That was the result of the evidence, for both prosecution and defence being heard by the jury in court.
No, i am not saying the legal system is infalliable, far from it. but unless we have had access to and the capacity to consider the evidence presented for and against we are just shouting conspiracy theories and the editorial opinions of what ever news outlet we subscribe to..
flaps..
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Police State is the wrong term. Judiciary State would be more accurate.
perhaps it can be considered that we, like the US have moved away from the rule of law, to the rule of lawyers..
Niall Ferguson also considers such a point in the Reith Lectures
The UK police can arrest anyone any time anywhere in the UK on suspicion of doing anything, that makes us a police state.
unfortunately the police tend to chase by directive whatever the cause du jour is, hence why some activities, even if illegal go unchallenged by the police yet other minor offences are given specific attention.
this of course perverts the rule of law itself, but is politically driven. in order to address this, law enforcement needs to be non-partisan.
The UK police can arrest anyone any time anywhere in the UK on suspicion of doing anything, that makes us a police state.
Yes, but they face penalties for getting it wrong...
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Also called unlawful arrest this involves being arrested and detained on false charges when the police act outside of their legitimate powers and may result in damages being payable to the victim. Wrongful arrest can occur when a prisoner has not been subjected to lawful arrest or when a suspect's personal liberties have been interfered with. A police officer must have reasonable grounds for arresting a suspect failing which the police officer may be liable to pay damages for false imprisonment.
If you want to experience a real police state, I suggest you move to North Korea. They know how to do it there. None of that "human rights" tosh to worry about.
de Menezes did not run away from the police. He was shot while sitting in a carriage of a stationary underground train. His killers were in plainclothes and they had no idea who they were targetting or indeed why. He was a slightly swarthy man who had just left an apartment building that was being watched by security forces one of whom had left his post to take a leak. I don't know what the verdict would have been but in my view there should have been indictments for manslaughter somewhere in that chain of command.
