PPRuNe Forums

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th Feb 2012, 10:17   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 73
Posts: 723
What did British Employers do that was wrong ?

I was reading in the FT this past week about the recent sucesses in the British car industry as opposed to the dismal performance of other EU countries. And the article - quite rightly - pointed out that virtually all of the British car industry is actually foreign-owned, mostly Asian.

So....the workers are the same, the locations are the same, all that has changed to bring about this rosy state of affairs is new ownership: which begs the question, why was the car industry so feeble* under British ownership ? What did we do that was wrong ? What are the new owners doing that is so right ?

* Two words, for example. The Austin Allegro.
OFSO is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 10:26   #2 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 65
Posts: 794
Another two words................"Red Robbo."
sitigeltfel is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 10:35   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Asgard
Posts: 488
State interference.

Lack of investment.
Loki is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 11:05   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 65
Posts: 794
Labour Party.
sitigeltfel is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 11:24   #5 (permalink)

Flashes from the Archives of Oblivion
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 03 ACE
Age: 66
Posts: 2
Complacent management.

Under investment.

Just look at what Nissan did in The North East
El Grifo is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 11:25   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 462
The japanese and the germans bring a worth ethic to business that has to be followed. You do things their way or not at all.

British management is always looking over its shoulder at the unions and the press and making their decisions on the way they may be perceived by the unions or the press.
Flap 5 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 13:16   #7 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 65
Posts: 794
So, the Rising Sun has replaced the Morning Star.
sitigeltfel is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 13:30   #8 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manchester
Age: 66
Posts: 58

Industry was always the responsibility of der manijmunt.

That the motor industry took their eye off the ball, complacently regarded themselves as above competition, and then were incapable of dealing with employment issues cannot be escaped.

This was actually coming right just as Thatcher intervened and sold it all off, because a new breed of managers was coming to the fore, but their skills and aspirations were cut off it their prime and they now work for BMW, Nissan, MAN, Paccar and TATA, exporting both the profits and the products of their labour instead.
TBirdFrank is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 14:19   #9 (permalink)
Uneasy Pleistocene Leftover
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gone, but not forgotten apparently?! All forums marked "Private"...
Posts: 0
I was reading in the FT this past week about the recent sucesses in the British car industry as opposed to the dismal performance of other EU countries...
By "dismal performance" in the EU, I imagine that you were somehow ignoring or alluding to VW's annual profits doubling to Euro 15.8 billions during 2011.

OFSO, either get your facts straighter before any further postings or go mug a north African illegal immigrant close to you in order to soothe yer nerves...
airship is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 14:29   #10 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 69
Posts: 1,538

A strong counter-argument to 'Blame Thatcher!' might be the sorry saga of Rover. They did not flourish linked to Honda and then, under ze Chermans... All that is left, for the most part, is the purely German pseudo-Mini; the rest was handed over on a platter to a group of Brits who squandered the money and then watched it sink.

I remember watching the British bike industry sink, going from domination to nowhere in the American market in less than 10 years, when arrogance played a large part in that, essentially telling stupid Septics what we should buy rather than bothering to ask what we might want. It became so bad that BSAs were just sat there gathering dust in showrooms thanks to looking... Ah! I don't want to think about it!

I worked for a Norton dealer right at the end, when we delivered one of the last Series III Commandos before the collapse.

I used to work on MGs, again, doing pre-delivery on one of the last MGBs. It had a casting flaw in the cylinder head so that the oil was a lovely robin's-egg blue colour. I ended up swapping the head with one from another B, since the papers had the serial number of the car with the defective head. What fun!

Call me a Jonah; I worked on SAABs, Peugeots, Fiats, Renaults... all gone from the US market. Well, Fiat is back, sort of. If some Jap wants to pay me, I go work on them again, kill them stone dead.

Is Capitalism the problem? 'Exploiting the workers,' and all that? How's the Cuban car industry doing these days? They seem to do a very nice line of retro vehicles, much more authentic than that hokey little Mini, there is that.... What is the solution to this problem?

Here in the People's Republic of Southern Vermont we have been invaded by luvvies, here to make a movie about horny-handed sons of the flinty soil. It started with one Mini in the muddy parking lot and we are now, since a few days, up to two, and counting. I blame whoever invented the handbag for men, probably Gianni Versace.

Last edited by chuks; 26th Feb 2012 at 14:46.
chuks is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 14:39   #11 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 187

Are you giving enough attention to your cats and your work these days ?

As for the topic, VW's German bits and Skoda may be doing well , but I don't think the others are. BMW has also had another record year.

In other countries , Peugeot/Citroen is in dire straits,Renault results
lousy, Saab is dead, Volvo recently sold to PRC, Mitsubishi has announced closure of its Dutch factory, GM has already closed the Antwerp plant and now said that its European business made a loss of USD 300 million plus and more plant closures are not ruled out ( Bochum and Ellesmere Port in the firing line )

Care to share your good news with us ?
AlpineSkier is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 14:50   #12 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 73
Posts: 723
airship: either get your facts straighter before any further postings

I don't recall having mentioned VW in my posting so there weren't any facts to straighten. But in our road there are three families driving Range Rovers (amusingly all are French families), one German family with a Mercedes, and several (British/Italian/Dutch) Peugeots.........not a VW in sight.

P.S. Wouldn't dream of mugging a North African, fine workers most of them, and always polite and friendly when we employ them on building work. And they always earn and receive a bonus from me.

Perhaps your airbag needs reinflating ?
OFSO is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 14:55   #13 (permalink)

More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 67
Posts: 1,773
Mitsubishi has announced closure of its Dutch factory
The Dutch Automobile industry. DAF, Volvo, NedCar. Smart. Mitsubishi. Call it what you will. It was built to help reduce the strain when the mines closed here. It's struggled on for years under various owners. There seem to be some new buyers (Chinese?) interested in taking it over.

Bad design of British cars certainly didn't help. On the early minis the floor pn was welded on outside of the body panels which didn't help make it corrosion proof. Management and Designs NIH attitude to improvements was also pivotal. Ford continued the E93A Pop (separate chassis, side valve engine, rod brakes 6 volt electrics, vacuum windscreen wipers) until the late 50s.
The Italians were/are no better. Alfas made by spraying a thin layer of metal onto the inside of a body made of paint. I once had an Alfasud GTi which was a great little car, unfortunately it had rust on it from Day 1.
Selling Lancias as Chryslers, WTF? That's got to be a lose/lose situation.
Lon More is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 15:33   #14 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 54
Posts: 909
Airship old chap,

Good lord, what has upset you today.

Myself, I reckon if the UK still made those world beating cars, the Allegro, Maestro, TR7 and such like that we would still have a world beating British Leyland. Quality, drivers cars; all of them.

Being sensible now, the wife and I have been looking at a replacement car for a year now. We need a car that is a drivers car and will take four persons on long distance journeys. The car must be a good car driving in the city, but also a good car on B roads, C roads and D roads. We have looked at every single manufacturer possible, and across a large range of vehicles (from Golf size to Mercedes CLS and also Land rover Discovery, BMW X5 etc)

I wouldn't actually buy any Audi or Volkswagen. The only Audi I can fit into is an A8 and none of the Volkwagens appear to be value for money. Volkswagen quality also appears to be downward and design insipid. Audi build quality does not appear to be as good as some of the Fords either. That was really surprising to find. The A8 was appallingly built for such a high cost.

Looked at the Porsche Panamera. Wow on the inside, ugly on the outside. A good drive though. BMW's are not much cop on Scottish roads due to the weather. Also not much room for back seat passengers. Peugeot look okay, drive okay, but I can't deal with quality issues or faults. Vauxhalls are not for me. Have driven most of the range long distance and can't get comfortable in any of them. I can't drive the new Ford Mondeo as there is a grill on the top of the dash which reflects in the windscreen at my eye height and means I can't see cars ahead of me. Tried different Mondeos for a few weeks to see if I could get used to it. I couldn't. Might end up waiting for the New, new Mondeo next year, or the new Mazda 6 which comes out at the end of this year. Discovery 4 was fast and reasonably comfortable, just not a drivers car. Doesn't have the issues of some of the Land Rover range. Range Rover too small, Evoque, too small, Discovery not a sensible choice, nor wide enough for me.

Anyhow, lots of research, many results and it looks like I may end up either buying a CLS (love the old shape) or waiting for the new Mondeo.
hval is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 15:50   #15 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Doghouse
Posts: 359
hval you say a Range Rover is too small ? How big are you ? How about a Hummer
sled dog is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 16:10   #16 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 54
Posts: 909
Sled Dog,

Am looking for a vehicle that is comfortable for four persons over long distances. A range Rover has bugger all leg room for back seat passengers and not enough head room.

Physically, think of me as a tight head prop with short legs, short arms and a very long back. Is why I can't get in to most Audis. Same with most Jaguars. Many cars I could get in to my head was bent sidewards against the roof of the car. I also need a wide car, very wide. My wife, think of as a Number eight (but female). Tall, slim and wide. A lot of cars I got in to my eye line was above the sun visor.

Long journeys we swap who is driving to give us all breaks. Therefore I will end up in the back at some stage. Getting my size ten (44 European) flippers under the front seat can also be a problem.

Hummers are crap on road and not as good as a Defender off road.

Picture of me below (I'm on the right)

Last edited by hval; 26th Feb 2012 at 16:20.
hval is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 16:39   #17 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 313
What amazes me is that Ford flogged Jaguar to the Indians just when they had developed their best range of cars ever. The XK, XF and the XJ are not only beautiful to look at but keep winning awards in competition with the German cousins.

Me - I remain satisfied with the much under-appreciated XS. It may not cater for hval's dimensions but the twin-turbo 2.7 diesel is ideal for Scottish roads - giving that stunning acceleration from 45 - 70+++ ideal for passing the formations of caravans which infest our roads in summer - while delivering over 40mpg. The last 08 ones can now be picked up for less than a new Ford Focus
Ford rectified the horrendous unreliability which plagued Jags in the early 90s - but there is a car snobbery in Britain which assumes the BMWs, Mercs and Audis must be better.
scotbill is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 16:46   #18 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 631
Hval, my wife has the previous model Mazda 6 and I reckon even a Gruffalo would be comfortable in it. We're both shorties so the seats are well forward and the rear seat passengers seem a long way away. No doubt the new model will be the same. My impression of the car is that it's essentially designed for the American market and as we know there are lot of Gruffalos in the US of A. The only problem with it was a rubbish OE battery that died if you even left a single interior light on all night. I'm sure that's fixed on the later models.
corsair is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 16:47   #19 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 54
Posts: 909

I agree about Ford. Ford make quality vehicles at affordable prices that are cheap to maintain and to repair. From the past years research, and from cars I have driven, Ford have overtaken most other companies in terms of quality and drivability.

I am not a car snob. I will buy any car that meets my needs. I also will not pay for a name (e.g. Audi and Volkswagen) when Ford make better cars than them. After a year of researching, looking at and driving in real life situations I am very surprised how poor Audi and Volkswagen are.
hval is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2012, 16:53   #20 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 631
I never liked Fords but my position has changed of late. I could easily buy one next time. It is perhaps no coincidence the Ford has a stake in Mazda.
corsair is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:54.

1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1