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Old 19th Dec 2011, 01:52   #81 (permalink)
 
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It certainly used to be said that Michael Schumacher influenced the design of the Ferrari when he was driving there, which left other drivers (Rubens?) with different styles and preferences struggling to achieve a satisfactory setup.
Most people who follow Formula One will know that there is a lot more to this than just a conspiracy theory.Just the suggestion that a team would favour one driver over another would never happen would it

I think about the only thing that Ferrari would not do for MS would have been to paint their cars another colour.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 08:33   #82 (permalink)
 
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In fact, he changed his helmet colour to match the car.

Shumi and Ferrari included Brawn in the package. Brawn + Byrne = a car suited entirely to Schumi, with good justification.

Interesting that, when Shumi broke his leg, the Ferrari went downhill. Irvine was struggling. Schumi returned and the car started to perform again. Don't think that was a coincidence.

As Irvine admitted (I have it in a documentary on video tape somewhere):

'Nobody can beat Michael Schumacher in the same car; nobody'.

Of course, Irvine meant nobody racing at the time. Senna would've beaten Schumacher. And it would have been a darn sight more entertaining than the current mob at the front of the procession.....*yawn*.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 10:00   #83 (permalink)
 
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Lex -
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It is obvious though that Vettel is the number one driver and has been given the better equipment (The front wing episode is a case in point although not the only one)
You clearly claimed that SV is being given better equipment, my point was to query your basis for this statement? It is this assertion I would like to debate with you?
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 18:35   #84 (permalink)
 
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You clearly claimed that SV is being given better equipment, my point was to query your basis for this statement? It is this assertion I would like to debate with you?
Did Red Bull take the latest developed wing off the car of Mark Webber and give it to Sebastian Vettel at the Silverstone GP...Yes or NO?

No conspiracy theory and nothing to debate.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 18:39   #85 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
Did Red Bull take the latest developed wing off the car of Mark Webber and give it to Sebastian Vettel at the Silverstone GP...
But did they do it because they favour SV or because they thought that as SV is clearly the better driver the money would be better invested on a potential winners car
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 22:26   #86 (permalink)
 
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Here's a question for the doubters.

Who between the Red Bull drivers was ahead in the championship points table when Red Bull took the latest front wing off Webbers car and put it on Vettels car at the Silverstone GP?

The answer of course for those who don't know was Mark Webber.In fact from memory Vettel did not lead that many races and Alonso was ahead on points with Webber second for the last race.I might be wrong but if this is the case it seems as though Webbers comment that it was inconvenient for the team to have Webber leading the title chase at the latter part of the season might have been spot on.

Did the team ask Vettel not to overtake or maintain the gap when he was trailing Webber....NO but they did when it was the other way around..

Even Lewis Hamilton has said that to an outsider it appears as though Vettel is the favoured driver.
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But did they do it because they favour SV or because they thought that as SV is clearly the better driver the money would be better invested on a potential winners car
SFFP,does that mean that McLaren should invest more money in and favour Jenson Button next year ?

Remember JB came second while Lewis got fifth.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 22:58   #87 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post

SFFP,does that mean that McLaren should invest more money in and favour Jenson Button next year ?

Remember JB came second while Lewis got fifth.
Based on this seasons performance they probably should but given the fact that both guys are former F1 champions I doubt they will, still that is a conundrum that RB are not likely to be facing anytime soon
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 01:14   #88 (permalink)
 
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I notice SFFP that you didn't answer the question about who was ahead on points at the time the team removed the 'new' front wing giving it to Vettel?

It's a bit hard to win the title when your team wants the other driver to win.

What was that about no team orders when Webber was leading in the latter part of the season but when it's their favourite leading suddenly team orders seem to be important.
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SFFP,does that mean that McLaren should invest more money in and favour Jenson Button next year ?
Quote:
Based on this seasons performance they probably should
Exactly right SFFP because only one driver at McLaren this year looked and drove like a former World Champion
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 07:49   #89 (permalink)
 
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Lex - The front wing incident at Silverstone last year is correct, I concede, but you claim there are others.. where??

I am sure Vettel is defacto Numero Uno at Red Bull, Webber has had his time in F1, and despite public statements, even he himself has admitted to not being able to touch SV in terms of pace for most of the year, therefore at his time of life, driving the best car and picking up a couple of win bonuses every year as well as the mega-bucks sponsorship, he should think himself lucky. I would also agree that in the interests of team performance, and given incidents of 2010, that Webber was told to hold station behind Vettel, however I suspect it was more to do with the risk of losing cars and by default - Championship points, than anything else.

I just do not agree with your inference that RBR have given SV better / different kit on multiple occasions. Different strategies and car management from the pit crew is one thing, different hardware (Other than driver specific balance changes etc) is quite another.

Also to take your point about Silverstone 2010, as I recall, SV went off at turn 1 (Much to my delight as I was sitting in the grandstand cheering!) and he subsequently drove very well to get into 6th or 7th whichever it was.. however with 3 or 4 races to go in 2010, Webber should have won the title, he didn't IMHO due to his own lack of performance - he made fundamental errors and produced a poor string of results.. all of his own doing.

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Old 20th Dec 2011, 08:37   #90 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post

Exactly right SFFP because only one driver at McLaren this year looked and drove like a former World Champion
Lex/Lobes/Red,

The point you make is quite correct, LH was poor whilst JB was outstanding, however the point I made with about 5 races left to go in the 08 season is also equally correct, if Hamilton wins the 08 F1 drivers championship someone in the southern hemisphere was not going to take it very well.

Thing is I could never have imagined 3 years on the pain of that event would still be so raw

Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 20th Dec 2011 at 09:44.
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 16:53   #91 (permalink)
 
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AA,
I think if you visit the link I provided you will see what most observers are thinking.
If they can contradict their own policy of no team orders one year when their rumoured 'favourite' driver is coming second to his team mate and not only rescind but completely reverse that same policy with a straight face the next year when the situation is the other way around then I wonder what else is happening behind closed doors.

I also think it explains the marked difference between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel 2010 and 2011.If you are told behind closed doors that you will do what we tell you or we will not renegotiate a deal for next year it would have to have an effect on your performance as a driver.They were a lot closer last season instead of the walkover seen this year.

I have also agreed that on a number of times Mark has been his own undoing and is at the end of his career.He is a good but not an exceptional driver whereas SV looks like he could break several records in his career.However,if you have the complete support of not only the team but the owner as well it does not hurt your mind set compared to being told not to rock the boat.

SFFP/Duckbutt or whoever,again I have no idea of what you are talking about with this
Quote:
Lex/Lobes/Red,
thing and now you are talking about 2008 (I can only think that this is a result of some over indulgent Christmas cheer)

We are in 2011 with 2012 mere weeks away let alone living in the past thinking about 2008 but it looks to me that if Lewis Hamilton does not make a complete turn around and win the title in 2012 or do better than 5th or at least somehow beat Jenson Button then someone in the northern hemisphere will be in more pain and feeling more than a little raw than he is now thinking about the 2011 season

Talking about Christmas cheer here are some funny headlines from planetf1 that we are unlikely to see in 2012.
Quote:
"WE WERE JOKING ABOUT THE THIRD CAR": MONTEZEMOLO
"We Actually Wanted Four"
Quote:
"WE HAVE TWO NUMBER 1 DRIVERS AT RED BULL": HORNER
Quote:
"SILVERSTONE IS UTTERLY SPECIAL": ECCLESTONE
Quote:
EDDIE JORDAN PREDICTS FIRST FIVE GP RESULTS CORRECTLY
BBC Pundit To Get Paul-the-Octopus's Aquarium
Quote:
LEWIS HAMILTON WINS STAND-UP AWARD AT EDINBURGH
Not For Comedy - Just For Standing Up
You can read the rest here.
Good to see some who have a sense of humour.
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 21:44   #92 (permalink)
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Steve Jones: If Simon Cowell sacks me, I'm going after Nicole Scherzinger | Metro.co.uk
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 21:49   #93 (permalink)
 
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Steve Jones: If Simon Cowell ..............................

That proves it............

Some guys have no respect for their dick.................
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Old 30th Dec 2011, 23:14   #94 (permalink)
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Nigel Mansell CBE . . .

Adrian Newey OBE . . .
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Old 31st Dec 2011, 05:38   #95 (permalink)
 
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Nigel Mansell CBE
Completely Boring Eejit?
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Old 31st Dec 2011, 07:25   #96 (permalink)
 
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Nigel Mansell CBE
This is the prat who joined McLaren on big money, was too physically fat to fit into the car and involved the team in massive expenditure of cash and effort to produce a tailored tub.

He then parked said perfectly serviceable car during a race and declared, with absolutely no sign of conscience, that there was no point continuing, because it wouldn't win.

Must be a British trait, because Dimone Hill played the same stunt on Eddie Jordan at the end of his very, very lucky career.

CBE = C*nt, Biggest Ever.
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Old 31st Dec 2011, 07:34   #97 (permalink)
 
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Nigel Mansell CBE
Perhaps he has done something for charity!

He doesn't appear to be a particularly nice person. Frank Williams couldn't get shot of him fast enough and the Americans saw through him pretty quickly too. His natural paranoia wasn't helped by the whining Brummie (ok Worcester perhaps) accent but on his day he was fearless in the car.

Caco

Edited to say his relationship with Peter Warr of Lotus was even more prickly. Warr loathed him and was reputed to have said “he will never win a Grand Prix as long as I have a hole in my arse”.

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Old 31st Dec 2011, 10:00   #98 (permalink)

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Perhaps he has done something for charity!
He is the current President of one of the UK's largest Youth Work Charities, UK Youth
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Old 31st Dec 2011, 13:41   #99 (permalink)


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Lon
Well said
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Old 31st Dec 2011, 14:11   #100 (permalink)
 
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Caco

Well said
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