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Old 9th Dec 2011, 13:49   #61 (permalink)
 
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So a 153 point gap between the teams.. Jenson - 270, Lewis 227.. 43 Pts gap..
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AA I think the point Lex was making was that Hamilton was supposed to have actually won a few more races iso sitting on the pit wall/moaning about his bird/playing dodgems. Then the points totals would have looked somewhat different.
Lon More is right and it's actually finishing a race in the first place and even getting on the podium preferably in the middle that might have made the difference with the constructors title.

When I heard about the supposed girl friend problems I think of the current/old days with other drivers and don't think it would have happened.
Can you imagine James Hunt worried about some bird.The only thing on his mind apart from racing would have been which set of twins to go home with after the race.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 13:55   #62 (permalink)
 
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Lon,

the same could then be said of Jenson, if he indeed is a driver comparable to Hamilton??

I just felt that the F1 World Championship is a team sport, and as a team, RBR performed best.. Drivers, engineers, designers, the lot.

On Hamilton's individual contribution, I agree the expectation was on him to do more, but with his own team mate taking 3 victories (On merit it has to be said) then It was always going to be more difficult for the McLaren boys.. Had one of the McLaren boys dominated the other and took 7 wins on their own then the Drivers Championship would have been a lot different. I think having 2 brilliant drivers in the team is counter productive to to winning the Drivers Championship.. what say you?

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Old 9th Dec 2011, 14:11   #63 (permalink)

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I think having 2 brilliant drivers in the team is counter productive to to winning the Drivers Championship.. what say you?
Not being privy to what happens in Woking MHO is that JB was bought in first as a back up to LH (cf. MW and SV) who is still pretty much Denis's bright eyed boy so would have been difficult to remove or demote. I believe many were surprised when he was consistently out performed by JB.

Big problem comes in a team with two equal drivers with dis-similar driving styles is when the car is being developed. It's either going to end up favouring and flattering one driver, or worse, falling in the middle, and being an also ran
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 14:54   #64 (permalink)
 
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[quote]
When I heard about the supposed girl friend problems I think of the current/old days with other drivers and don't think it would have happened.
Can you imagine James Hunt worried about some bird.The only thing on his mind apart from racing would have been which set of twins to go home with after the race.
[quote]

The one person I have sympathy for out of that fiasco is Anthony Hamilton, watching his son degenerate into " celebrity " tabloid fodder.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 17:05   #65 (permalink)
 
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And there is the real quandary for RBR at the moment. If AN does, and no doubts from me that he will, design another world beating car is it going to be financially viable to build 2 of them when realistically only one of them is going to bring them any sort of return
Errr, sorry to burst your trolling bubble but don't you think they need someone to finish second in as many races as possible so they get the MAXIMUM "return"? After all, the Constructers' Championship means this peculiar thing called MONEY from Bernard, and it ain't any good if they have one guy scoring decent points and the other in 10th (think about "the red cars" when I say that).


Oh, btw Lex. You saying that every time Vettel outperformed Webber was only down to "team orders"? Could it maybe, just maybe, be because Vettel is actually a far better driver and any team will select the one most likely to actually do the best to be their "#1"?
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 19:33   #66 (permalink)
 
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...I think having 2 brilliant drivers in the team is counter productive
They should stick with JB and LH, then.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 20:01   #67 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by hellsbrink View Post
Errr, sorry to burst your trolling bubble but don't you think they need someone to finish second in as many races as possible so they get the MAXIMUM "return"?
O...M...G you are so right, I should have spotted that

Thankfully Duckbutt at post 60 has got it, do try and keep up
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 23:35   #68 (permalink)
 
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Oh, btw Lex. You saying that every time Vettel outperformed Webber was only down to "team orders"? Could it maybe, just maybe, be because Vettel is actually a far better driver and any team will select the one most likely to actually do the best to be their "#1"?
HB,Without a doubt Vettel is faster than Webber.

Webber is at the end of his career as a driver and although a very good technical driver is and never was a Schumacher,Vettel or Hamilton.His race starts are woeful.

It is obvious though that Vettel is the number one driver and has been given the better equipment (The front wing episode is a case in point although not the only one).Is that because he is younger and has a longer career ahead of him and the team wants to please him so he doesn't move to another team or is it a
case of nationality?

Is the RedBull car being set up for the style to favour Vettel as Lon More mentioned this.
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Big problem comes in a team with two equal drivers with dis-similar driving styles is when the car is being developed. It's either going to end up favouring and flattering one driver, or worse, falling in the middle, and being an also ran
I'm not saying that Webber is an equal to Vettel but if the car is not set up to his style of driving then it makes it even harder to get results.This year might have been an example of that as the results from last year were a lot closer between Webber and Vettel or maybe it was Vettel that adapted to the new tyres better than Webber did.

Vettel is as you and I have said the faster driver but as with Lewis that is not the full story in what a driver needs to win the WDC.Lewis is faster than Jenson but JB has outperformed Lewis this year when if it was just down to speed Lewis should have been the one in second spot.JB has the ability to think and that is something that Lewis is either not capable of or will learn as he gains experience.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year between Lewis and Jenson.If Jenson continues to best Lewis I can't see Lewis staying at McLaren but where would he go?

Again Again
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Nice try Lobey!
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(Lex/Red/Lobes)
Duckbutt/SFFP whoever,what you are trying to get at or think is your concern and business,so think what ever you want to think but you are so wide of the mark that you could drive a truck through it.
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Old 10th Dec 2011, 00:01   #69 (permalink)
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My thoughts in 2010.

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I agree that Vettel will, some day, become World Champion, but he is still young so he has time on his side.
From:- Formula 1

I still believe that Vettel has the potential to perform (witness his qualifying performances) and, given a reliable car he has the ability to win races (when he avoids colliding with his team mate!).
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Old 10th Dec 2011, 05:39   #70 (permalink)
 
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Is the RedBull car being set up for the style to favour Vettel as Lon More mentioned this.
Tell me one team where they have two cars that are set up exactly the same. Oh, guess what, there isn't one as each driver needs a different setup to suit their individual style of driving.

Every team does that.
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Old 10th Dec 2011, 07:53   #71 (permalink)
 
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[Balestre impersonation]Don't worry, we'll adapt a few of the Senna knobbling techniques to make it more profitable...err, sorry, I mean more of a show.[/Balestre impersonation]

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Old 10th Dec 2011, 08:55   #72 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by hellsbrink View Post
Tell me one team where they have two cars that are set up exactly the same. Oh, guess what, there isn't one as each driver needs a different setup to suit their individual style of driving.

Every team does that.
Precisely and someone would have to be a real conspiracy theorist to think anything different
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Old 16th Dec 2011, 12:48   #73 (permalink)
 
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Lex

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It is obvious though that Vettel is the number one driver and has been given the better equipment
Really? what other obvious instances of better equipment and favouritism have I missed? How naive am I, I just thought that Vettel was a better driver??

Anyway, let me just shoot your little theory all to hell.. - The Top Gear F1 Star in a reasonably priced car..? Conclusive evidence if any were needed to dis-prove your theory
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Old 16th Dec 2011, 16:51   #74 (permalink)
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Force India confirm Paul di Resta and Nick Hulkenberg as drivers for 2012.

BBC Sport - Nico Hulkenberg joins Paul Di Resta at Force India

Toro Rosso:-
BBC Sport - Toro Rosso name Daniel Ricciardo & Jean-Eric Vergne as drivers for 2012
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 10:46   #75 (permalink)
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"45 year old Finn Jyrki Juhani Järvilehto has been sentenced to two years four months in gaol over a speedboat accident in 2010, in which his passenger was killed."

J J Lehto I presume?
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 10:55   #76 (permalink)
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From J J Lehto's wiki entry

"On June 17, 2010, Lehto was involved in a boating accident in Ekenäs. The accident happened when the boat carrying Lehto and his friend, whose identity has not been released, hit the base of a bridge. Lehto was injured and the other passenger was killed in the accident.[3][4] Lehto was drunk at the time. Later in August, 7 Päivää-magazine reported that Järvilehto had attended his friend's funeral.[5] Järvilehto has not issued official interviews or statements since the incident. In January 2011, Iltasanomat reported that the police investigations had determined that no-one besides Järvilehto could have been driving the boat at the time of the accident.[6]"

"On December 14, 2011, Järvilehto was sentenced to prison for 2 years and 4 months (Pending appeal and denies all charges).[10]"
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 11:18   #77 (permalink)
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Thanks. Looks as though he may have been caught lying and they threw the book at him...
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 19:48   #78 (permalink)
 
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Really? what other obvious instances of better equipment and favouritism have I missed? How naive am I, I just thought that Vettel was a better driver??
So you have seen at least one instance of the team giving Vettel better equipment?

I have never said that Vettel was not the better driver.Webber starts as I said have been woeful as have a few of his moves.It is obvious however to most unbiased observers that Vettel is the favoured driver within the team.
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 21:49   #79 (permalink)

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Hellsbrink I made no mention of individual set-ups but rather about the initial design of the car possibly favouring one or the other.
In the case of RB, Vettel seems to be the more technically minded of the three drivers involved and thus communicates his wishes more easily to the engineers
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 23:10   #80 (permalink)
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It certainly used to be said that Michael Schumacher influenced the design of the Ferrari when he was driving there, which left other drivers (Rubens?) with different styles and preferences struggling to achieve a satisfactory setup.
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