PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13th May 2012, 02:37   #1181 (permalink)
KAG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: JB English class
Posts: 0
Quote:
A long way to go to No. 1, eh KAG?
Depending for who. For China it doesn't seem impossible anymore.

Anyway the US cannot be compared to one individual EU country if this is what you mean. Take France for example, there are 5 times less people in France than in the US, we need to have 5 times less thing than you to be similar, which is mainly not the case.
EU is the biggest economic power in the world, if you really want to compare.

If the US was exactly equal to 5 times France, it would mean that right now you (US) would have less debts, more world leader companies, better health, more exportation, more rockets, more satellite industry, more nuclear insdustry, bigger airliner industry, more nobel prize, more litterature, more agriculture, more car industry, more train industry, more wealthy people... You are less than 5 times France in those fileds and many others, so it means one french guy is more efficient than one american guy if you want to play the number 1 thing.

I hope it answers your "number 1 question", my point was quite different, it was to underline the fact UK is stalling while trying to teach everybody in Europe how to do. Germany and France are much more successful than UK concerning economy, so if somebody has to teach something on that matter it won't be UK, clear and simple.
KAG is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 02:39   #1182 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 52
All that considered, still a long way to go to No. 1, eh KAG?

As China proves, the more people you have, the harder it is to keep up the averages.

Quote:
EU is the biggest economic power in the world, if you really want to compare.
For now, maybe. Perhaps if Turkey joined, you could hold on to that claim for a few more years, then maybe you'd have to add Iran or Saudi Arabia or someone. From my perspective, though, EU seems a bit sickly of late, and is not quite the economic entity the US is. Not trying to willy-wave about it, just pointing out some flaws in your contention.

Last edited by BandAide; 13th May 2012 at 02:45.
BandAide is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 03:06   #1183 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 52
Not trying to be obscure or arcane. The dots are that overspending, caused mainly by socialist welfare and entitlement policy, is unsustainable.

This eventually leads to financial crisis based on imminent insolvency, making policy makers to decide on austerity, which is unpalatable to those made dependent on socialist welfare and entitlement. They vote to throw out austerity, as Greece and France have done, but will come to the point, as Maggie said, that other peoples' money is gone.

Think about it. It's a vicious downward spiral.
BandAide is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 03:07   #1184 (permalink)
KAG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: JB English class
Posts: 0
Bis repetita

Quote:
All that considered, still a long way to go to No. 1, eh KAG?
Again?

Alright, I don't understand what you mean.

I will try to read your mind via my computer , do you think that France (or any single european country) wants (or have the goal) to become number one economy in the world? Is that what you mean?

Or do you mean your country is number one concerning public debt? Well, in this case you have no credibility to try to teach anything about austerity and debt.

The Number one economy in the world is EU if you really want to compare yourself to something with a similar size. One french guy or one german guy as more chance to get a nobel prize and export more than one american guy, keep that in mind when playing your "number one" game.

You lost me in the discussion, I am afraid.


My point is that UK is falling behind and The Telegraph is giving economical conferences and is as noisy as usual doing like everything was fine when explaining to more successful countries how to do deal with austerity.

I am more than willing to connect the dots with your contribution and stay on topic, but that's not an easy task. What's your point?
KAG is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 03:33   #1185 (permalink)
KAG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: JB English class
Posts: 0
Stating the obvious

Bandaide:
Quote:
Not trying to be obscure or arcane. The dots are that overspending, caused mainly by socialist welfare and entitlement policy, is unsustainable.

This eventually leads to financial crisis based on imminent insolvency, making policy makers to decide on austerity, which is unpalatable to those made dependent on socialist welfare and entitlement. They vote to throw out austerity, as Greece and France have done, but will come to the point, as Maggie said, that other peoples' money is gone.

Think about it. It's a vicious downward spiral.
Oooops! I have missed your point earlier, sorry about that!
I get it.

My viewpoint is clear on the matter:
Greece has adopted a very violent austerity plan: more debts, recession.
Spain has adopted an important austerity plan: more debts, recession.
UK is emplementing a terrible austerity plan: more debts, recession.

France and Germany are limiting there spendings, but there is no austerity plan in France, and Germany is speaking about increasing salaries, not decreasing them: debt under control, no recession.

I believe the austerity cure without any other plan for economic growth is a vicious spiral, and the facts in Europe proves it's right to think like that.



Quote:
as Maggie said, that other peoples' money is gone
She was right because in the 70s UK needed the FMI bailout to survive.
France (despite not having any oil on its soil, when UK had plenty in the north sea) has never asked the FMI help to survive, but have to hear year after year UK explaining everywhere how economy works.
UK became noisy on this matter within Europe, always thinking to be right, trying to pay less within EU than the others, regularly having economical difficulties over the years, and feeling so well about itself that it couldn't refrain from teaching everybody how stuff works like in this The Telegraph' article.

A message for Cameron: austerity only doesn't work, you are the alive proof.
KAG is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 06:51   #1186 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 46
Posts: 766
Quote:
Greece has adopted a very violent austerity plan: more debts, recession.
Spain has adopted an important austerity plan: more debts, recession.
UK is emplementing a terrible austerity plan: more debts, recession.

France and Germany are limiting there spendings, but there is no austerity plan in France, and Germany is speaking about increasing salaries, not decreasing them: debt under control, no recession.

I believe the austerity cure without any other plan for economic growth is a vicious spiral, and the facts in Europe proves it's right to think like that.
REALLY!!

So Belgium's "austerity plan" means nothing in this, neither does Italy's, or Portugal's? Ooh, what about the German "austerity plan" announced by Merkel in 2010 (the biggest wave of cuts since the end on WWII), and what about the Dutch Government collapse over their "austerity plans"?

Better still, let's just list the French measures. Increase retirement age, increase age from when you can get your pension, a 3 year freeze on public spending, increase tax for highest earners by 1% and increase all pension contributions from employees pay checks. And you say that is no "austerity plan", that it is just "limiting spending"? You do realise what you are saying, KAG, don't you?

Or look at Germany. Armed services CUT to 40,000, Civil Service employees CUT, Civil Service pay CUT. But that is not an "austerity plan"?

So, KAG, please look at the whole picture instead of going off on your usual one of attacking the UK as a baseless argument. EVERY EU country has an "austerity plan" of some sort, some more severe than others. To try and say otherwise is just pure, unadulterated, truth fabrication same as trying to say that the EU is somehow the "biggest economic power" when it is not actually a country or state in it's own right and facing economic growth on par with the US, with all it's debt problems, then your "European Way" doesn't exactly stand out as a solution (but don't let facts get in the way of your dreams, hé).
hellsbrink is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 07:02   #1187 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
as i posted for you back at the end of april KAG..

Quote:
You're still having trouble with this concept i see.

The UK is a country with its own currency and economic policy.

The US is a country with its own currency and economic policy.

The Eurozone is a group of countries with a single currency and different economic policies.

And as HB points out 'EVERY EU country has an "austerity plan" of some sort, some more severe than others. To try and say otherwise is just pure, unadulterated, truth fabrication'.
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 07:07   #1188 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 46
Posts: 766
Here are the various EU Austerity Plans....

EU Austerity: Country-by-Country -- UPDATED -- (4/26) | April 2011
hellsbrink is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 07:18   #1189 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
sobering...


Companies must raise £28 trillion to finance 'wall' of debt - Telegraph

Quote:
Businesses will need to secure as much as £28.5 trillion to refinance old borrowings and fund new spending, raising major questions over the ability of the world economy to avoid a recession, according to a report from Standard & Poor's.

British companies will have to find between £220bn and £268bn of new financing to fund their growth plans on top of refinancing hundreds of billions of pounds more of existing debt, according to the ratings agency.

The scale of the refinancing required, as well as the amount of new debt companies must sell, could create what S&P described as a "perfect storm for credit markets".

The report continued: "Governments and banking regulators are now not as well placed to counter another perfect storm scenario given that they have already expended so much of their fiscal and monetary arsenal to mitigate the problems arising in recent years."

The consequences of this are already being felt in the rising cost of borrowing faced by everyone from the largest banks to homebuyers when taking on new debt or refinancing existing loans.

On Thursday night the CBI echoed the warning and said central banks and governments needed to beware the problems brewing in credit markets.
"These figures show why monetary policy around the world needs to support growth, and why banks need to be given enough time to recapitalise and to meet their future regulatory requirements," said Matthew Fell, a director at the CBI.

British banks have dramatically reduced the size of their balance sheets in the past three years, as well as tripling the amount of capital they hold against potential losses.

However, these moves have led to a shrinkage in the amount of credit available to businesses and soaked up some of the investor demand for new debt.

Anthony Peters at SwissInvest said it was likely there would "not be enough money" available in the coming years for companies to refinance and raise the amount of new debt required.

"There is not enough money on planet Earth to fund it all. We are living on borrowed money and there is no way of avoiding that," he said.

Fears over the ability of countries to fund their debt have caused borrowing costs to soar. This week, Spanish 10-year bonds yields rose above the 6pc danger level, while Italian bond yields have also jumped.
S&P said this is likely to only be the start of a wider credit crisis as national austerity programmes and sovereign debt fears combine to put "refinancing needs in jeopardy".

On Thursday, the Dutch central bank said it thought Europe was on the brink of a "lost decade" of low economic growth as the region struggles to get its finances in order.

Against this backdrop, eurozone and British companies will have to have to deal with managing the £7.1 trillion debt pile they have accumulated, equivalent roughly to 80pc of the region's economy.
* my underline
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 08:32   #1190 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cape Town / UK / Europe
Posts: 732
KAG what you are saying is that all the countries except France have an austerity plan. So they're all out of step - except France.

Let's assume that's true, can you explain why France is the only country out of those that you have mentioned that will survive and proper without an austerity plan?

Does your new 'Socialist' President know something that nobody else has been told?

Last edited by Tableview; 13th May 2012 at 08:33.
Tableview is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 08:52   #1191 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 181
@KAG

Love the remark below

Quote:
Sir Cameron has adopted important.......
but honestly can't tell if you are being :

a) Ironic
b) Very respectful ( but unlikely on balance)
c) Very French

My respect by the way for your continuing - mainly lone - defence against your numerous opponents. This really must take a lot of your time, particularly as you are not using your first language.

@stuckgear

You never came back with any explanation about your comments implying Hollande is somehow obfuscating his true wealth. Do you have any reply ? It otherwise seems like a cheap smear because you don't like his politics.
AlpineSkier is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 09:24   #1192 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
the implication is what you want you want to take it as, that's up to you.

personally, i dont care one iota if francois hollande has a park bench or half of monaco to his name, that is up to him and good luck to anyone who builds a personal asset base through their own hard work. i not only commend that, but encourage it.

what i have a problem with is politicians making assertions and selling ideology that they exempt themselves from. look at the UK since 1997 as 'prime rib' example with the shallow rhetoric coming from the shadow cabinet and the hangers on looking to get their snouts (back) into the trough.

as i said and have said, and will repeat for any who have learning difficulties, is that the jury is out on hollande, it's too early seeing as he hasn't even taken office yet.

what the initial concern is, is 1. declarations of punitive action against the wealthy.. all that does is push the wealthy and their wealth elsewhere and the subpoint to that is what does one declare as 'wealthy'? a person with property worth 500,000, or 600,000 or 700,000 or 1,000,000 and once the wealthy as categorised as say for arguments sake 1,000,000 of assets and that money has been bled out, then what.. categorise those with 700,000 as wealthy.. and once that has been bled out.. categorise those with assets of 600,000 as wealthy and once that has been bled out, then what ?

2. hollande has already stated that finance is his enemy and decalring war leads to either relocation out of harm or conflict, france needs economic growth and the tools to do that not a war or abdication.

3. economic growth predicated on spending?.. where does the money come from the magic money tree ? by taxation and punitive actions against wealth see point 1 and then point 2.

you cannot create wealth growth by taking punitive action against it.

Alas, the problem is that socialist policies are short term, eventually OPM (other people's money) runs out. The two previous extracts from the telegraph were not just missives, placed for sh1ts and giggles but an indication as to the underlying problems we face, and MUST face up to if we are, as a continent going come out of this mess largely intact.

the hard facts MUST be faced up to and dealt with, not ignored.

Quote:
And yet as the elections in Europe have demonstrated, the Left’s refusal to acknowledge harsh economic truths is beguiling to voters, who understandably fear for the future.
yes anti austerity and public spending sounds great and does beguile the voters and for sure voting for rainbows and unicorns is more tempting than voting for dealing with debt problems and stemming financial evisceration, but it's fantasy, nothing more and it was fantasy that got us into this rank mess.

Quote:
There is not enough money on planet Earth to fund it all. We are living on borrowed money and there is no way of avoiding that
so you, or any others, can make me out as a right wing bigot as much as you like, if it makes you happy, it still doesn't solve the problem, even if it may make you sleep just little more comfortably.

Last edited by stuckgear; 13th May 2012 at 09:29.
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 10:08   #1193 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
Talking of which...

Greece will run out of money soon, warns deputy prime minister - Telegraph

Quote:
Speaking exclusively to The Sunday Telegraph, Theodoros Pangalos said he was "very much afraid of what is going to happen" after Greek voters rejected the deal in elections last Sunday.

"The majority of the people voted for a very strange mental construction," he said. "We want to be in the EU and the euro, but we don't want to pay anything for the past."

The main beneficiary of the election, the hard-Left Syriza coalition, came a startling second on a promise to tear up the deal, which promises EU loans to keep massively-indebted Greece afloat, but demands crippling spending cuts in return. Germany, the principal lender, has said it will stop payments if Greece breaks its promises on spending.

Mr Pangalos warned: "There is a school of thought that says the Germans are bluffing. They need Greece and will never throw us out of the eurozone. But what will happen, which is almost certain, is they will not give us the money to pay our debts.

"We will be in wild bankruptcy, out-of-control bankruptcy. The state will not be able to pay salaries and pensions. This is not recognised by the citizens. We have got until June before we run out of money.

[..]

Jonathan Tepper, an economist with Variant Perception, said a debt default and Greek euro exit would happen at only moments' notice after weeks of denials by all concerned.

"To avoid immediate runs on banks, it would be done in a 'surprise' announcement over a weekend when markets and banks are closed," he said. "If necessary, Monday and Tuesday would be declared bank holidays as well."

During this period, diplomats in Athens have been told, cash machines would be turned off and all banks closed. Inside, staff would be "redenominating" euro notes into the new drachma, probably by rubber-stamping them. Capital controls would be imposed to stop Greeks transferring money out of the country electronically and border checks would be reinstated to prevent them taking out unstamped euros in suitcases.

Mr Tepper is one of a growing number of economists who believe that the so-called "Grexit" might actually be better than years and years of EU-mandated misery.

[...]
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 10:12   #1194 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vaucluse, Provence
Age: 62
Posts: 623
Greece ran out of money a long time ago. It is other peoples money they are now running short of.
sitigeltfel is online now   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 10:37   #1195 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
High earners say au revoir to France - Telegraph

Quote:
The annual mass exodus from the French capital sees the city's inhabitants while away the August heat in the countryside.

But this week many of the biggest earners across the Channel have been mulling a départ which could be rather more permanent.

The toppling of Nicolas Sarkozy by François Hollande, the first socialist president to lead the country in 17 years, has sent ripples of fear through the wealthier arrondissements of Paris.

Their new president may block the eurozone austerity advocated by Germany's Angela Merkel, but he is not opposed to his richer citizens feeling the squeeze.

Mr Hollande plans to implement a 75pc tax rate on earnings over €1m (£800,000), on top of a 45pc rate for people making €150,000 or more. He is also expected to raise "wealth taxes" on property assets and end his predecessor's tax incentives to lure bankers back home.

In addition, France's high earners feel increasingly unwelcome in a country now led by a man who has admitted: "I don't like the rich." So where are they looking? London. It comes as no surprise – while Hollande prepares to raise taxes, over here David Cameron is cutting the 50pc tax rate for income above £150,000 to 45pc. "I have already worked in London and lived in South Kensington," said one French banker who expects to return to the UK over the next three months. "The question is how much of Hollande's rhetoric will materialise into policy."

Few are keen to find out. Private equity firms and American banks in Paris have already begun making arrangements for their top executives to set up office in London, amid widespread concern about changes to the French income tax regime.

High-earners are changing their behaviour so they appear safely based in London before any painful crackdown. "Partners are coming over to establish a track record of behaviour that is outside tax, from an early stage, so that they can respond quickly to what is coming down the track," said a senior source at one private equity firm.

"The exodus will mean a lot of France's biggest earners relocate to London," said a hedge fund manager. "It won't be possible for everyone, but those who can make the switch will definitely be working on a contingency plan."

One US bank was organising tax advice for its Paris-based staff, said a source: "Naturally people are concerned, and we are just trying to make sure we address those concerns."

The source insisted that it would not mean a wholesale exit from France, but rather that employees would be offered options. However, some staff have already formally asked for transfers, with most plumping for London.
London, of course, already has a French population in the hundreds of thousands, with Chelsea and South Kensington – dubbed the unofficial 21st arrondissement of Paris – packed with French bankers and their families. All of France's major banks have subsidiaries in the UK.

But now the floodgates are creaking open. Estate agents report a spike in interest over the past few weeks as Hollande's victory seemed certain, with people specifically citing the election as a reason to start looking.
Winkworth in South Kensington said it has seen a 50pc increase in inquiries from French buyers since the election last weekend and has even hired a fluent French speaker to help deal with the interest.

Rival agents tell the same story. Noel de Keyzer, at the Sloane Street branch of Savills, said: "Even before the French election, I spoke to several affluent French nationals about their fears of what Hollande proposed, and they all said that we will see an increase in French nationals buying during the next quarter in prime central London."

James Pace, head of Knight Frank's Chelsea and South Kensington offices, said one French financier told him Hollande's arrival would mark "the third biggest exodus from France – the first being the Revolution and the second when Mitterrand [the last socialist president] got into power". Having so far rented, this client is now looking to put down more permanent roots in London by buying.

But not all the concern is about a punishing tax regime, according to those French already here in London. Stéphane Rambosson, managing partner at consultants Veni Partners, argues Hollande's arrival bodes ill for business.

"You have to have a very specific reason to have a business in France instead of the UK, for example access to skilled workers or the need to be very close to clients," he said. "Sarkozy had implemented reduction in social changes to increase competitiveness in France. Such changes will disappear and labour costs, which are huge, are likely to rise.

"If you pay an employee say £100,000 in London the equivalent in France is already over £170,000, simply due to costs. Administration and the regulatory framework is also very complicated."

While he does not anticipate big business pulling out of France, he confirmed top earners are definitely considering relocating – especially those in finance who can work from a trading floor in any country. "Such moves will be carried out very discreetly," he said. "What Hollande described as its enemies, financiers, will find themselves exiled in the UK and taking, for different reasons, the steps of the Huguenots who helped create the Bank of England."

The cry of "Bienvenue à Londres" from Boris Johnson, Mayor of London, made earlier this year as France embraced the financial transaction tax – hated by the City – has been heard loud and clear.

While Switzerland, Belgium and the UK have traditionally been the first countries considered by those leaving France, London is increasingly attractive compared to its rivals, according to David Blanc, a partner at wealth managers Vestra Wealth.

"In the UK you have the largest community of French people outside France and this is getting bigger every year as it is becoming easier to settle in the UK for a French family," he said.

"London is becoming the number one choice for relocating French people for many reasons," said Blanc. "A very welcoming business and tax environment, a vibrant international city, great entertainment, very good French and international schools, and other services targeted at the French community like French doctors, French food."

There is another factor. With the new president in vocal opposition to Germany's efforts to impose harsh austerity measures, the prospect of more turmoil in the eurozone climbs.

In this environment, the attractions of London property loom particularly large. It is well known that foreign money has been pouring into prime central sites, as people search for a haven for their wealth amid economic uncertainty.

While the traditional “safe” investments such as bonds and gilts offer paltry yields, in contrast, commercial property in London can yield between 4pc and 5pc a year.

That is why it is not just those looking to move to London who are thinking about investing in property here. Offices in Mayfair and St James and retail sites in Bond Street are proving the most sought-after commerical sites.

“It [Hollande’s arrival] will mean a further focus on London from the eurozone,” said Damian Corbett, head of capital markets at Jones Lang La Salle, a commercial property specialist. “If people are concerned about the collapse of the euro it’s an effective hedge against the currency. A running comment we’ve heard is that commercial property in London is 'gold with a dividend’.”

Of course, now is not the first time the wealthy French have felt the chill of political change – even in recent years.

“The more affluent of French people may get upset by the prospect of higher taxes, however this is nothing like the scare they had in 1981 [when Mitterrand was elected] ,” says Jessica Scale, French chief client officer at consultants Logica. “The rumours then were that the Soviet tanks were going to storm onto the Champs Elysées.”

But history offers small comfort for those looking askance at the new regime. Amid Le Grand Départ, the prospect of La Rentrée – the homecoming – looks far off yet
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 11:22   #1196 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 181
@ stuckgear

Quote:
so you, or any others, can make me out as a right wing bigot
The above comment is presumably aimed at me, so maybe I should say that I am also right-wing and think Hollande's proposed policies mad.

You appear to jump to the conclusion that anyone who questions you is doing so in order to crticise ( Paranoid - moi )

I simply found your comments about hypocrisy completely unfounded as :

a) Hollande has the kind of "fortune" you would find completely normal for a high-ranking bureaucrat .

b) There is abolsutely nothing published that hints at any kind of deception about his wealth.

Regretfully have to say that you appear to have commented out of spite which devalues the thread.
AlpineSkier is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 11:37   #1197 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 46
Posts: 766
Quote:
a) Hollande has the kind of "fortune" you would find completely normal for a high-ranking bureaucrat .

b) There is abolsutely nothing published that hints at any kind of deception about his wealth.
True on both counts, but what I think Stuckgear is trying to say is "How much of that wealth is he willing to redistribute" and IF he is using or using some sort of tax avoidance scam to avoid the redistribution of his own wealth whilst others have to pay more in taxes, etc, then surely that will make him a "hypocrite".


A bit like Ken Livingstone calling rich people everything under the sun whilst using a similar tax avoidance scam to make sure he pays less taxes, or trying to do his best to make sure London drivers suffered through his anti-car policies whilst he swanned around in official cars or taxis. That sort of hypocrisy.


Time will tell.
hellsbrink is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 12:01   #1198 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,053
Alpine, the right wing bigot remark was aimed at the wider 'audience' ref: a couple of pages back..

Quote:
if you prefer, take your wisdom from those whose views concur with yours, including some of the press, and self avowed right wing, socialist hating, bigots.
HB has it in a nutshell.

it is not a comment out of spite, but a comment based on the reaction that doesn't subscribe to socialist policies as being 'right wing'.

or as tableview pointed out:

Quote:
anyone who has 'left wing' views can launch an attack on someone with 'right wing' views with impunity, but as soon as someone with right wing views speaks out they are accused of being bigoted, racist, capitalist, fascist ....... We live in times when it appears that the accumulation of wealth is seen as an evil. In that context, I'm not criticising Mr. Hollande for being a wealthy man, even though the extent of that wealth is unknown, but rather for pretending to be a socialist, for vowing to 'redistribute wealth more equitably' which I believe is part of the credo of such people. That translates roughly as taxing the wealthy at higher rates than the rest. The wealthy, then use various tax avoidance instruments to reduce their tax liability. This is perfectly legal and acceptable, but not when the person concerned purports to be a socialist, and particularly when he is a public figure in a time of austerity.
Quote:
in the same way as it seems fine for 'lefties' to attack 'righties', why is it that as soon as a white person says something that could potentially be construed as 'racist' to use that awful word, there's an outcry, but the reverse doesn't apply?
there is rank denial from the left that policies have not just failed, but have mired many national, and wider, economies in debt and in highly precarious state.

what MUST be done is deal with the economic problems, the causes and recovery, yet some still want to push 'ideologies' when there is simply not the finances to support them.

if you feel that considering these areas devalues the thread, then that's a pity.

Last edited by stuckgear; 13th May 2012 at 13:06.
stuckgear is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 14:40   #1199 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 181
@ stuckgear

Quote:
if you feel that considering these areas devalues the thread, then that's a pity.
No sg, I don't : as I have said my comments were solely about your references to Hollande and his finances and , frankly, I still don't understand the rationale you lay out above as an explanation, but I don't think that this discussion/analysis is adding anything, so I'll leave it here.

@HB

He has said that he will reduce his salary by 30% and since he has no other income ( no shares, no rental income (?) ) that is more of a cut than anybody else who may be subject to his proposals with the exception of those earning E 1 million +. Whether he can impose that depends on the legislative elections in the coming months so at the moment, he is going to be one of the biggest guaranteed losers.

Unusually I therefore have to say that , for a politician, he doesn't yet seem to be telling ( obvious/provable ) lies and I really couldn't call him a hypocrite. Crazy yes, if he thinks that increasing debt and obligations under the current circumstances will improve economic circumstances, but hypocrite no.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 13th May 2012 at 14:53.
AlpineSkier is offline   Reply
Old 13th May 2012, 15:31   #1200 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 166
Good grief... see my post nbr 906
Quote:
Only and really truly awful posibility for Greece is to

(a) declare martial law at midnight on friday
(b) seal off & shut down all the banks & install military personel in all newspapers, radio & TV stations, & garrison all government offices with troops. Seal of all ports & airports with troops, shut down all border crossings.
(c) declare that the Euro is no longer the Greek currency & is replaced by the drachma
(d) that all bank deposits are converted from Euro to Drachma at the euro joing-rate of 340.750 Dr. = 1 Euro.
(e) that all liabilities to banks are also coverted to Drachma at the same rate
(f) that all government liabilities are converted to Dr. at the same rate
(g) that all salaries, outstanding unpaid invoices etc etc are now denominated in Dr converted at the euro-joing rate.
(h) that no greek citizen may hold foreign currency, which must be surrendered at a rate equivalent to the DR-Euro joining rate.
(i) re-open the banks on the 2nd monday (i.e. keep them all shut & protected for 1 working week.
(j) watch the drachma drop in value from 340.75 to closer to 34,075 to the euro before recovering to about 20,000
(k) pay off all outstanding greek government debt (now Dr denominated debt) by converting a small amount of the foreign-currency & gold holdings of the greek central bank.

Actually, they need Horace Greeley Schacht...

Actually I think the situation may well be worse than that...
G&T ice n slice is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 18:39.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network