I can categorically state that ORAC, Hellsbrink and BandAid are different people, all in completely different locations.
All they have been doing is quoting sources of information and voicing their opinions, without malice or bigotry as they are perfectly entitled to do.
As you point out, it's generally accepted and understood that the Euro is deep do-do and that only a fool or someone swimming in a certain Egyptian river would not admit to.
In terms of rescue/resolve for the Euro the problems are now so deep set that its now painted into a corner, if/when it goes the EU economies will face serious problems. Resolution, of which no effective clear plan has been defined, to date, will face serious problems and not doing anything will further exacerbate the current serious problems.
So the question is, is which is the lesser of the 'three' evils.
In my part of the world the nomenclature "twins" normally refers to two persons, that aside, I am sure you realise it is only my little joke (although if it were in fact true, it would not be entirely unprecedented in these hallowed halls)
Irresepctive of how smart we all think we are (some more than others) smarter people than us are on the case. All efforts are being made to save the euro from varied and different sources. The collapse of the Euro would cause untold ripples, if not tsunami around the world.
I take issue with your point regarding malice or bigotry, although arrogance and overbearing might be a more accurate discription.
Hour by hour, day by day, week by week, solutions are being sought to solve this enormous crisis.
There are too many psuedo-economists here burying the euro before it is dead !
What this crisis has shown is the ability of politicians to kick the can the road almost indefinitely, much to the annoyance of the money men. The latter are too timid/afraid to call time on the Euro whole enterprise, which they could quite easily do.
Apparently there's a huge wall of money from hedge funds etc betting on a large-scale ECB intervention. The Germans know this and are not going to give them the satisfaction of an upside this time around.
oh without doubt there has been some smarter cookies than us on the case, unfortunately they haven't been listened to, nor have the warnings been heeded by those in the capacity to act on that advice or the warnings. That's why the problems have encountered in the first place; This is not about economics, but politics.
The inference is mainly pointed at the Saimese Twins of disaster (or the singilar person ) that have been banging away regardless, over the last week or so to be perfectly honest !
One has been at work for another 12 hours (working time directive? UP YOURS!!) so one has not had time to digest what the possible repercussions of the deal not struck today are. Will not comment on how the news over here has been rather biased by not mentioning Ireland saying "Non", or how Sarkozy threw his toys out of the pram and refused to shake the hand of a fellow Prime Minister, although both points do raise obvious thoughts, and will see what I think once I see the "nitty-gritty".
Oh, one last point. It's also quite sad to see someone who does seem to have a modicum of intelligence resort to trying to say that both myself and ORAC are one and the same person because we dare to disagree with him, especially as posts from others in the same vein are not given the same treatment. That makes it, well, kinda "personal"..............
Exactly what I was saying since the begining, many months ago:
-Euro is not disappearing
-Euro zone/EU is going towards more integration
-UK is still not realizing what's happening, and really thinks it did the good move by deliberately getting itself isolated and marginalized. Cameron was so busy saying no to EU that he forgot to think about tomorrow: what's the plan for UK? A few weeks ago I warned UK: the hangover will be terrible I said, remember?
Following David Cameron's veto of EU treaty reform, there is plenty of frustration in Europe over Britain's stubborn attitude in the battle against the debt crisis. Prominent members of the European Parliament have strongly criticized the British prime minister and sent him a clear message: Europe doesn't need you. Manfred Weber, vice chairman of the European People's Party, was annoyed about Cameron's "distancing rhetoric." But at the same time he believes it was ill-advised from the viewpoint of the prime minister: "The country is primarily damaging itself." The British must now decide if they want to be in the EU club or not, he says. "The game of always wanting to have a say in the debate while also wrecking every compromise is not acceptable in the long run," says Weber.
The sense of unprecedented isolation afflicting Britain in Europe has been reinforced in Brussels after Hungary joined Sweden and the Czech Republic in reconsidering whether to take part in a new pact aimed at rescuing the euro.
Britain parted ways with the rest of Europe earlier on Friday morning when David Cameron dramatically wielded his veto to block Germany's drive to reopen the Lisbon treaty in an attempt to rescue the single currency.
Initially 23 of the 27 EU countries said they would ignore the British veto and negotiate a new pact outside the treaty. Later the other three waverers said they would take the agreement to their own parliaments, leaving the UK on its own.
"More insular than ever" headlined Le Monde on what it called David Cameron's last bluff. After a long list of the many reasons the paper loves Britain – from habeas corpus and the BBC, to fish and chips and Liverpool Football Club – Paris's paper of record said France, Germany and other EU countries "were right to say no to London". "Fair play", the editorial read, the UK was not to blame for the eurozone mess. But there was a logic to the British standing apart from the move towards greater economic and budgetary integration: "They don't believe in the European idea. They are foreigners to this project." There should be no regrets for what happened in Brussels. At least all ambiguity had been lifted, the paper wrote. The British, who in 1973 joined what was then the European Economic Community, "are only interested in one thing: the single market". They're "indifferent, if not hostile" to the rest of the European project.
LONDON - After the deed was done, some leaders didn't want to shake his hand. French President Nicolas Sarkozy walked right by him, as if he wasn't there.
David Cameron, the British prime minister, had become Europe's outcast.
His sin? Rejecting an invitation to join 26 European partners in a tighter financial alliance to save the euro, making Britain odd man out at a time of deep financial peril, and raising doubts about whether Britain can realistically remain a member of the European Union.
Great stuff, watching all this with quiet glee,let chaos and disorder be the rule in that hated organisation. So Germany is going to do the punishing?,I suppose the French will just help with the rounding up as per Mr KAG.
Stocks climbed, sending the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index up for the week, Treasuries fell and the euro rose as Europe set plans to boost its rescue fund and tighten budget rules and U.S. consumer confidence beat forecasts.
The S&P 500 climbed 1.6 percent to 1,254.51 to at 1:38 p.m. in New York, leaving it up 0.8 percent for the week. The Stoxx Europe 600 Index added 1.2 percent. The euro increased 0.3 percent to $1.3375. Ten-year Treasury yields rose eight basis points to 2.05 percent. The 10-year Italian bond yield fell 10 basis points to 6.36 percent, erasing an earlier increase of 23 points. Cocoa helped lead commodities lower, falling for a 12th day in the longest slump in at least 50 years, on signs of growing supplies from West Africa.
Leaders holding all-night talks in Brussels added 200 billion euros ($267 billion) to their crisis-fighting warchest and tightened anti-deficit rules, an accord hailed by European Central Bank President Mario Draghi as a “very good outcome.” A gauge of U.S. consumer confidence climbed to a six-month high.
Four stocks gained for each that declined in the Stoxx 600. Intesa Sanpaolo SpA surged 7.9 percent to lead banks to the biggest gain among 19 industries after saying that European Banking Authority tests showed the Italian lender doesn’t need to raise capital. Alcatel-Lucent SA, France’s largest telecommunications-equipment supplier, climbed 7.1 percent as Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. upgraded the shares.
Look for some quote on internet to reassure yourself if you like, it doesn't change the fact that one day or an other you will have to wake up and understand that outside the little PPRuNe community where we can all try to convince KAG of the insanity of Eurozone and the farce that EU is, there is a real world out there that is not waiting for your comments and quotes.
If after what happened you still don't realize what's going on, I don't think any reality check will work.
I could easily give you some more quotes that will remind you that EU is making progress and the huge majority of european countries don't understand UK anymore, but I won't. If you don't understand now, you won't in the future.
There is time for Euro bashing, and there is time to calm down and think it over a bit, and this time has came. If you don't realize in which environment you are and want to continue to turn in your hamster wheel, please go ahead and google, quote, find what suit you the best in order to stay in your world, The Telegraph is here to help you.
I could easily give you some more quotes that will remind you that EU is making progress and the huge majority of european countries don't understand UK anymore,
Had a call tonight from someone in Germany - a real German in Germany ! - who said that according to her local newspaper, a survey showed over 50% of Germans would love to see Germany leave the eurozone (actually it was more a case of "see the other worthless countries go off and settle the problems they have caused without requiring Germans to pay for them").
As for the locals where I live, they expressed envy at the UK having a leader who spoke his mind and sorrow for the fact that once again, Spain's leader-of-the-month said nothing at an important conference. Still, he's been booted out and will be replaced next month.
Our great esteemed leader, seems a bit perplexed at his great and unique success at holding those European hordes from our hyper successful; income re distributive financial services industry - All hail; to the idea of a Tobin tax minutely applied; to act as a progressive vector in taking a proportion of the swell of speculative "cash" flows to the domain of elective governance.
I take my hat off to you, in congratulation of your unique and potentially historic achievement in the development of a European economic environment with the potential goal of a viable economic entity without our involvement.