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Old 29th Dec 2012, 16:06   #2761 (permalink)
 
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David Cameron plan to opt out of EU policing laws 'will allow criminals to run free' - Telegraph

Quote:
In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Viviane Reding, the vice-president of the European Commission, attacked the Prime Minister over the Government’s proposal to opt out of European Union law enforcement and policing measures.

The justice commissioner expressed particular concern that the Government was “minded” to opt out from 135 EU crime and policing laws, including the European Arrest Warrant (EAW), which, she claimed, had “horrified” Britain’s own police force.

“Do you want criminals and paedophiles running around freely on the streets? Is that really in the United Kingdom’s interest? It is crazy,” she said.

In June 2014, the crime and policing legislation comes under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, handing control of sensitive extradition and policing issues to EU judges.

Under the Lisbon Treaty, Britain must either opt out of every measure or allow the EU jurisdiction over all 135 pieces of European legislation, a substantial transfer of sovereignty.
what the Europrats cant understand is that *they* themselves are driving the UK out of the EU. by not allowing any negotiation of terms and stating that you must have all of it or nothing, pushes the UK into a position that it cannot abide with. truly a political dictatorship.

further to add, any further repatriation of powers from the UK to the EU automatically provokes a referendum in the UK (as per the policy instigated by Cameron at the start of the coalition tenure) surely the EU Europrats know this.. if they do not, then they are not fit for purpose, and if they do, then they are pushing for a point that cannot be had.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:24   #2762 (permalink)
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Article in the Grauniad interviewing pro-EU current and ex-PMs, Commissioners and civil servants.

It should be worrying when you consider these are the pro-EU UK views.....

Lord Mandelson: austerity means EU faces decade of unpopularity

.........Mandelson's assessment is the most stark: "I think that the eurozone is on life support and that cures for its ills can be found eventually. I'm more worried about the politics of austerity Europe, the huge adjustment that Europe is going to have to make in the coming decade and beyond in terms of its financing and its living standards and the impact this is going to have on European unity and solidarity.

"Now this goes to the heart of the EU's political legitimacy because whether you are from an austerity member state or a bailout country, you are likely to be dissatisfied for a long time to come with the economic state of Europe and the price you are paying for Europe's indebtedness and its relative failure to generate the wealth it needs to pay for its high standard of living. That's going to have a negative political impact on how people regard the EU and its institutions and that's what we've got to understand and address. These raise real issues and challenges of political management and accountability of Europe's affairs. And we've got to pay as much attention to what needs to be done politically to repair Europe as we do economically and in the running of the eurozone. These are very deep questions for the EU's future and they're not going to be solved by a touch more austerity here or a further bailout there.".......

Lord Kerr, the former head of the Foreign Office, admits something deep has gone wrong in the UK relationship with Europe. "These Tories are not causing public opinion to move. They are reflecting a move in public opinion which people like me who are Euro-fanatical have to admit is real. There are the standard excuses we parade, like 'nobody speaks up for Europe, why do ministers always use Europe as an alibi, why is it always a zero-sum game where we win or we are ambushed by evil foreigners with stitch ups?"

But he says these are inadequate explanations. He argues: "I think we don't have a narrative about the EU in Britain. We had a single market narrative which we then followed by an enlargement narrative. Although probably the guy in the Dog and Duck wasn't awfully interested in the enlargement narrative, the political classes were on the whole. So it went quite well. For many Tories this turned into a call to widen rather than deepen Europe. People like me argued that's an analytical error, that the most enthusiastic deepeners will be the new member states, and we were three-quarters right. Now the enlargement justification has vanished because in the Dog and Duck, or at least in the Tory constituency office, the enlargement that has happened has meant 'all these horrible Latvians, Lithuanian and Polish people coming and taking our jobs'. So it is all mixed up with the immigration story. The idea of free movement of Turks and Balkans, people think: 'Come on, we have had enough of that already."

Matters have worsened with the failures of the euro. "If you go from 1999, when they kick the euro off, to late 2008, it is like the guy in the cartoon who has gone over the cliff and is still walking and hasn't looked down and hasn't yet fallen. I think we are all in that period. People had not noticed the design flaw."........

Kerr fears British influence may decline as changes to voting systems mean the eurozone can operate as a winning block. "So the Right Hon George Osborne MP will appear and read out a brilliant Treasury script on what should be done on the matters up for discussion at the EU finance ministers' meeting. People will look out the window and be very polite and say: 'That is jolly interesting, George thank you very much and now shall we vote.' That is what is going to happen."

"Then the European commission and the council will start looking like an ogre here, and what the Daily Mail says – which is not true now – about hostility to the Brits inside the institutions will start being true."
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:51   #2763 (permalink)
KAG
 
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Get your facts straight

Alpine, you speak about France, you tend to forget a few things:

-France is doing itself a huge effort for Eurozone and provide a huge amount of cash already, I know we only speak about Germany, truth is that France is providing a similar effort,
-France interest rate keep decreasing year after year despite all the doom and gloom that has been forcasted about this subject (exactly what you are doing right now) and fact is that when France borrows at 6 months it actually makes money (negative interest) get informed,
-France deficit rate is decreasing fast every year and in 2012 the dificit is lower than what everybody has been forecasting all along. As an example as we speak the annual deficit in France is lower than in UK, which means that if France is leaving above its means, UK is doing worse.


So yes, it might be a rough year for everybody in 2013, but concerning France in your post above it seems you are not given the facts in their whole, or perhaps you just wish France to go down, I am sorry to say it doesn't depend on you.

I can provide you with the quotes and "google" research concerning the UK/France deficit comparison, the borrowing rate decreasing in France, and the deficit being lower than forcasted in 2012, but I believe you trust me.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:56   #2764 (permalink)
 
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KAG : As usual you are ignoring various articles/facts that I and others have posted showing that France is not in a good position at all. Of course you will interpret as you wish, but that does not make you right.

As for 'wishing France to go down' that is one of your oft repeated mantras. Seeing the writing on the wall is not tantamount to wishing the prophecy of gloom to come true.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:58   #2765 (permalink)
KAG
 
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Stuckgear:
Quote:
KAG,

it's blatantly obvious you really don't have much of a clue
Yes that's very well known now on JB PPRuNe, I have been all wrong all along on all matters, you guys have always been right
I obviously have no clue, however you, you know everything, well done my friend.


OFSO: nice task you are asking me! Having a walk in London, Paris, french and england villages, nice! Will do!
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:05   #2766 (permalink)
KAG
 
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Tableview:
Quote:
KAG : As usual you are ignoring various articles/facts that I and others have posted showing that France is not in a good position at all.
Again, you make me speak through your own keyboard. I have never said France was in a good position (but not many are in a good position right?), however show me the articles that proves I am wrong on the 3 points mentioned above, as a reminder:
1-interest rate decreasing,
2-Deficit decreasing and the 2012 deficit lower than forecatested by everybody one year before, deficit lower in France than in UK,
3-France doing an economical effort similar to Germany for Eurozone.

Prove me I am wrong.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:08   #2767 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
France deficit rate is decreasing fast every year and in 2012 the dificit is lower than what everybody has been forecasting all along. As an example as we speak the annual deficit in France is lower than in UK, which means that if France is leaving above its means, UK is doing worse.
That's nice, since yet again you have the figures that nobody else has.

You may see PROJECTED deficit rates but you do not see ACTUAL deficit rates. And since a "deficit" means that more is going out than is going in, spending is higher than revenue, it means France is still spending BEYOND it's means and not "above".

Stop telling lies.




(PS. Debt to GDP % is still rising............)
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:10   #2768 (permalink)
KAG
 
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Question

Stuckgear:
Quote:
what the Europrats cant understand is that *they* themselves are driving the UK out of the EU.
What are you complaining about, you want UK out of EU!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:28   #2769 (permalink)
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Hellsbrink:
ALRIGHT LET'S BE STRAIGHT AND HONEST HERE

You are speaking about what I said about France deficit.
As a reminder I said, concerning France deficit:
-decreasing every year
-in 2012 it is lower than forecasted
-in 2012 the french deficit is lower than the UK one

And what are you saying:
Quote:
Stop telling lies.
Stop telling lies? Do you imply that what I have said concerning deficit are not true?

On this thread you have said so much bull already! You are the one who said that UK economy was growing when in recession, you have no credibility here.

And now you come saying I tell lies with NOTHING TO PROVE ME WRONG






Hells:
Quote:
You may see PROJECTED deficit rates but you do not see ACTUAL deficit rates. And since a "deficit" means that more is going out than is going in, spending is higher than revenue, it means France is still spending BEYOND it's means and not "above".

Stop telling lies.
I believe you have some understanding problems here, yes a deficit is spending more than what you have, what's wrong with you? Did I ever said it was not the case? I just said the deficit was decreasing, and the UK deficit was even more important then the french one, speaking about living above your means UK is the winner in 2012, no need to come in France for that.
But making me say something I have not said doesn't suprise me coming from you.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:41   #2770 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What are you complaining about, you want UK out of EU!!!!!!!!!!
And what you don't understand is how these people who think they have some sort of divine right to be al-powerful in a region of so many individual countries do not understand how their actions, their decisions, their screwups in the name of "The Project" are alienating people across all of Europe and not just in the UK, and how the level of rejection is higher in the UK than elsewhere simply because the people in the UK, not the politicians, are sick of being told what to do by people they have not elected into power.

The numbers don't lie, 53% of those surveyed across all 27 EU member states think things are going in the "wrong" direction compared to 21% who think they are doing things right. 60% do not trust the EU compared to 31% who do. 46% do not trust the European Parliament compared to 40% who do. 46% do not trust the European Commission compared to 36% who do. 44% do not trust the Council of the European Union compared to 32% who do. 49% do not trust the ECB compared to 35% who do. I could go on, and these numbers are from the EU themselves in their Spring 2012 "Eurobarometer". By the time of the next one, given the state of the Eurozone economy; these figures could change.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:46   #2771 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I believe you have some understanding problems here, yes a deficit is spending more than what you have, what's wrong with you? Did I ever said it was not the case? I just said the deficit was decreasing, and the UK deficit was even more important then the french one, speaking about living above your means UK is the winner in 2012, no need to come in France for that.
But making me say something I have not said doesn't suprise me coming from you.
And what are the ACTUAL deficit figures? You don't know, yet you made a claim based solely on a guess. You don't know what the 2012 deficit figures are, yet you stated that

Quote:
France deficit rate is decreasing fast every year and in 2012 the dificit is lower than what everybody has been forecasting all along.
Not bad when nobody knows what the final figure for 2012 actually is, except you...

Oh, and in 2011 the UK cut it's deficit by a higher % rate than France did. Guess that means the UK is doing better than France after all. Must be, the French millionaires seem to prefer living in London than in France........
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:47   #2772 (permalink)
KAG
 
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You still haven't found anything to say?

Okay I will help you:

Quote:
PARIS--The French government said Wednesday it will meet its 2012 target of bringing the deficit down to 4.5% of gross domestic product, helped by much lower debt servicing costs than originally forecast.



Spending in 2012 will be 3.6 billion euros ($4.57 billion) less than expected in the original 2012 budget, mainly thanks to debt charges EUR2.4 billion below expectations, the finance ministry said, in an end of year budget bill presented to cabinet Wednesday. The remaining EUR1.2 billion of savings comes from applying a rule of freezing the value of spending below inflation, the finance ministry said.



Quote:
The new official analysis, based on a report from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), showed that Britain was running a so-called structural deficit of 5.2pc in 2007 – far higher than the 2.5pc initially stated by the IMF.

Using this measurement, which records the amount by which public borrowing exceeds tax revenues after external economic factors are considered, Britain entered the global financial crisis in a worse position than other major economic powers. America’s structural deficit was 3.3pc, France’s was 3pc and Germany’s 1.1pc.

The analysis has been released as George Osborne, the Chancellor, prepares to abandon a Government pledge to ensure that debt is falling by 2015. Ministers are preparing to blame the economic situation they inherited being worse than they thought for abandoning the “golden rule”.
UK deficit before crisis was £38bn bigger than thought - Telegraph


Yes France is living above its means, but the last 10 years UK has been much worse than France. Today remains the same, just look at the UK 2012 annual deficit and the French one. And we should be lectured by UK concerning "living above its means"???? WHAT A JOKE!
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:55   #2773 (permalink)
 
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I guess you must be blind, I did answer.

And, again, you do not have the final data for 2012 so cannot make the claims you have made.

Oh, and nobody has said that the UK finances were not in a perilous state, but we have said, and shown, that things are not as good in the Eurozone as you would like to make it seem.


Come back when you have a clue about what you are talking about....
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:05   #2774 (permalink)
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Hells:
Quote:
Oh, and in 2011 the UK cut it's deficit by a higher % rate than France did.
That's vey easy to do, the year before UK deficit was basically double than the french one.

Hells: you are a joke.


A little reminder of the past (2010) maybe to illustrate what I am speaking about (sorry to burst your bubble):
Quote:
Britain's public finances are in a worse position than those of Greece, according to the latest figures on government borrowing. The Office for National Statistics said yesterday that January alone saw a net shortfall of £4.3bn, far worse than City forecasts and in a month which has always previously shown a healthy surplus. It puts the UK on track for a deficit of £180bn this year, or 12.8 per cent of GDP, economists said, shading the Greek figure, hitherto the worst in the European Union, of 12.7 per cent. In the pre-Budget report the Chancellor forecast a deficit of £178bn for the current year. Warnings that the UK could face a Greek-style crisis of confidence have been building for some weeks, and yesterday saw a sell-off of sterling and British government securities, or gilts, on the disappointing news.
Shock as British deficit equals that of Greece - Business News - Business - The Independent













Now let's come back in 2012:
Quote:
Britain could be heading for a bigger budget deficit next year than crisis-hit Greece and Spain, according to research by Morgan Stanley.
Economists at the investment bank calculated that Britain’s budget deficit could total £126bn, or 7.8pc, of gross domestic product in 2013-14.

That would make Britain’s the highest projected European deficit, with Morgan Stanley predicting that Greece’s would stand at 6.3pc and Spain’s at just under 6pc. The Office for Budget Responsibility currently predicts that Britain’s budget deficit could be £98bn next year, or 5.9pc of GDP.

Morgan Stanley’s forecasts underline the pressure on ChancellorGeorge Osborne efforts to cut the deficit, as official figures last week showed that government borrowing for the first five months of the financial year was running at more than 25pc over target.
Chris Spivey » Blog Archive » CHAOS: UK Budget Deficit Maybe larger than Greece-Spanish Poverty Leads To Violence-Greece Being Milked For All Its Worth

Studies forecast 2013 UK deficit at 7.8pc French one at 3.5pc, during the few past year that's more or less the same: UK deficit double than the french one, and you still want to lecture me concerning France deficit?
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:28   #2775 (permalink)
KAG
 
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Hells:
Quote:
And, again, you do not have the final data for 2012

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!


Tell us here that you believe that the 2012 UK deficit might me below the french one, please go ahead!

It has been YEARS that the UK deficit has been much higher than the french one, it means it has been YEARS UK has been leaving above its means much more than what is happening in France, still we have people from UK completely brainwashed by the UK newspaper expert in french basshing and self denial lecturing us like they were doing great. Wake up.

Now your deficit is catching up the Greece one, and you still have the balls to talk to me about french deficit without mentionning the UK one (most of you being from UK) DISHONEST but so funny, thanks I had a good laugh.

It's a bit sad though, because you know the UK deficit is a catastrophe compared to the french one today, and you have nothing else to do than fuing around and saying we still don't have the final numbers.
It confirms (if needed) what I saw about you, your only goal is to prove your point by all means whatever the reality, and in your life you are not able to change your mind or admit you are wrong, and we all know what kind of people it is. Man that's sad.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:48   #2776 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Get your facts straight
Alpine, you speak about France, you tend to forget a few things:
Funnily enough.. Alpine skier, lives in errr.... France, while you KAG, live in errr China..


Quote:
I can provide you with the quotes and "google" research concerning the UK/France deficit comparison
and I can give you google research that says elvis is still alive and that aliens walk among us.

Last edited by stuckgear; 29th Dec 2012 at 19:50.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:53   #2777 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Yes that's very well known now on JB PPRuNe, I have been all wrong all along on all matters, you guys have always been right
I obviously have no clue, however you, you know everything, well done my friend.
well, when you talk unmitigated garbage about the situation in UK politics and the UK political environment, when you live in errr China, and I live in errrr the UK.. that makes one of us more exposed to the political situation and awareness.. and it aint you.

Cameron, by the way has not been knighted.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:58   #2778 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What are you complaining about, you want UK out of EU!!!!!!!!!!
and again you miss the point by a country mile
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 19:59   #2779 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Yes France is living above its means, but the last 10 years UK has been much worse than France. Today remains the same, just look at the UK 2012 annual deficit and the French one.
and yet again you miss the point by a country mile.. the UK has a currency it has control over, France, does not.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 20:04   #2780 (permalink)
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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The fact you consistently ignore, KAG, is that France is stuck in the Euro, while UK controls its currency, ultimately therefore, its finances.
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