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Old 10th Jan 2011, 16:29   #81 (permalink)
bearfoil
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Like living in a camera laden and target rich environment like you folks??

Pass.

Standing: Location, eg: America, born and bred. I have bigbig family in Scotland, but I would not presume to utter pronouncements on their culture, and "rules".

Comity?? Perhaps a discussion on "unnecessary Death". We appear to share a viewpoint there. Start it off.

regards

bearbrae
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 16:53   #82 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
If I read it rightly, the PM has control over tuition rates through the House of Commons.
We have different notions of democracy. Cameron does not have that control. Acts of Parliament voted in the House of Commons are what govern.

Cameron is not being burned in effigy, but is not enjoying complete popularity either. He has not been shot in the head at point blank range either.

Whether your measurement of the distance from the UK to Russia or mine is correct, 56 miles or your 1,800 are quite different.

And if you want to get to Russia by road from the UK, you need incredibly robust lungs and a car that uses salt water as fuel.

Quote:
Now, either Sarah Palin has her finger on the pulse of Russia or she doesn't, but you really can't have it both ways.
Why do you raise the subject of Sarah Palin? What is that quote about? I have not mentioned her at all, and she does not interest me.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 17:16   #83 (permalink)
 
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Oh dear.

The point of 'Sarah Palin' is a reference to her having once used the proximity of Alaska to Russia as a proxy for foreign policy experience and having that hooted down by all comers as laughable.
Ergo, from a geopolitical standpoint, apparently the U.S. isn't particularly close to Russia at all, where the UK is on the same continent (being an island notwithstanding, you're part of Europe whether you like it or not).
In 1941, the Japanese invaded Dutch Harbor, on Unalaska Island in the Aleutians. In 1942, they also invaded Attu, at the tip of the Aleutians. 3,000 people died at the battle of Attu in 1943, most of the bodies have never been recovered.
Geopolitically, nobody cared. That's the point.
So, from a measurement perspective, you're right, they're quite different. Distance in geopolitical terms and distance in statute miles often are.

Actually, I had thought there was now a tunnel connecting the UK to mainland Europe, through which trains traveled. Perhaps I have been misinformed and it's not possible to travel from UK across Europe by wheeled conveyance. At one time there were also high-speed ferries running out of Dover to Calais, upon which people often took automobiles.

Regarding Cameron, then the article I read from the Daily Mail I apparently misinterpreted, but in any case, I think the point that the royals have absolutely nothing to do with tuition rates and that mob violence directed at them for changes in that policy remains valid.
As I read that incident, it essentially was: "I am unhappy with a policy, so I go after people who have nothing to do with it to express my displeasure?"
Apparently I'm missing a logical connection here.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 18:13   #84 (permalink)

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Actually, I had thought there was now a tunnel connecting the UK to mainland Europe, through which trains traveled. Perhaps I have been misinformed and it's not possible to travel from UK across Europe by wheeled conveyance. At one time there were also high-speed ferries running out of Dover to Calais, upon which people often took automobiles.
Again actually, when I lived in England as a pre-teen/teenager in the late 50s and early 60s, one could drive to Dover, drive up onto a ferry, go across the Channel and drive off the ferry onto European soil.

Did that change Wings?

Now, more and more evidence is starting to emerge that this guy was neither a far left or a far right idiot/wackjob/nutjob. Just a badly disturbed person who needs to be removed from society completely. Whether that be by execution or they dig a new cell for him in Florence, Co. will be left up to the jury.

Oh, for those that inferred different, no, I still only own a 112 year old .22 child's rifle that is stored in a safe place, don't have ammunition for it in any case.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 18:43   #85 (permalink)
 
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With the greatest of respect... There is a difference in both degree and metaphor here that we should not be overlooking.

Quote:
Matari writes:
Take the famous "gunsite" map used by Palin. Clever? Not really. But unprecedented? Unique? Product of right-wing rage? Of course not.
No. Of course not. Placing a scope-like set of crosshairs over individual politicians' districts shows no rage whatsoever, and absolutely cannot be confused with pointing a lethal weapon at an individual.

Neither hunters nor snipers act out of rage. Their goal is simply that of killing what they center their scope on.

So what's the metaphor behind Palin's "sarahpac.com" graphic?

Late-breaking news: Apparently, that icon is a bullseye.

Just more spin. Those are reticules, more often called crosshairs, usually associated with firearms.

This is a bullseye.


Serious question here:
Why are "those who oppose the liberals and democrats" so frequently walking around with guns at political rallies? (source: Google Search)



Regarding the liberal graphic posted...

The icon used is unfortunate, but it is after all a good old fashioned bullseye - really! - placed in the center of each state, not on the back of a particular individual.

Bullseyes are used as targets in games of competition which have rules dictating conduct and scoring.

In virtually all such games, the goal has almost nothing to do with shooting an opponent, and a whole lot to do with hitting the center of a for-purpose target.

What is the metaphor here? Is it a comparison to a game of skill, or were the liberals suggesting someone hurl spears at the center of each whole state?


Note that I'm not trying to absolve either side of using poor choices in communicating their wish for success, nor am I trying to say that one is less guilty than the other of incredibly poor judgment.


RR
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 18:53   #86 (permalink)
 
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con pilot and um lifting;

If you wanted to, could you you not load your car on a boat and sail to wherever, offload your car, then claim you had driven there? Idem a car transporter train?

So, con, yes, you can still get a ferry to the continent. So, Um, yes you can put your car on a train to get to the continent through a tunnel.

But these details are trivial.

There has been a dramatic event in your country with loss of life and grievous injuries.

I do not gloat, obviously. I do not judge.

I furthermore do not form my opinions on domestic US politics from a particular section of the press (and, yes, Um, I am responding to you). In fact I leave your local politics up to you. You are grown up and know what to do.

Why does it all have to reduce down to politics?

I understand that one of the deceased was a 9 year old child. Was that child's death something that can be explained by differencies of poilitical opinion?
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:00   #87 (permalink)
 
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You spoke of lethality of differences of particular laws.

I took issue with your interpretation.

I haven't trivialized, even momentarily, on this thread, the loss of life. It's tragic, people died, we don't know why, we can't even speculate, and I haven't and won't.

You have focused on pedantic and utterly irrelevant details consistently, such as the physical distance between the UK and Russia and virtually deserted areas of the U.S. and Russia.

I didn't address your politics, I addressed the violence inherent in mobs of people who quite apparently don't understand their own political process.

And you're lecturing me?
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:07   #88 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottenray View Post
That's what I thought.

I am going to have to start campaigning to ban darts and larger drinking dart leagues.

I'm going to write to my Senators Schumer and Gillibrand on the double!

I knew anyone who shouted "won-undred-an-fowty" "won-undred-an-ay-tea" could be up to no good.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:22   #89 (permalink)

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Quote:
I understand that one of the deceased was a 9 year old child. Was that child's death something that can be explained by differencies of poilitical opinion?
The horrible death of that nine year old girl was not caused by a difference of political opinions. Her death was caused by a man who was mentally unstable and had lost any concept of reality except what he created in his own sick mind.

Where there warning signs about this guy, yes. Is there any type of system in place to remove such people from society before they go off, no.

Such it is in a free society, people like him roam loose until they kill. Not all people who are mentally ill cause harm to no one but themselves.

When John Hinkley Jr. attempted to assassinate President Reagan, was that politically motivated? No it was not, it was someone who was deranged, just one of those who are crazy, ie mentally ill.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:30   #90 (permalink)
 
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Now all ya'll fussing over the difference between a "Bulls Eye" and a set of cross hairs tickle me! It is like watching a couple of Hawgs fighting over a fresh thrown Turnip.

The actual truth of the matter is the "cross hair icon" used is from a Mapping program that allows you to choose from Surveyor's icons for marking sight points.

Both the Democrats and the Republicans used the same symbols on their ads.

Now move on to something else with you?

Con....you remember the change in the Federal law pertaining to housing the Mentally Ill and how many tens of thousands of them were released back into society?

The Ban the Gun nuts shall invariably use this tragedy as another excuse for them to advance yet again their goal of disarming the millions of law abiding peaceful people in this country while doing nothing to facilitate identifying and dealing with the mentally disturbed in a manner that will protect the rest of us.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:46   #91 (permalink)
 
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An interesting point...

So, I can walk from London to New York, assuming I ignore that injunction to remain seated "...until the Captain has turned off the 'Fasten Seatbelts' sign"? Err, sort of....

Perhaps you want to retreat slightly, to say that, yes, you can travel by rail from London to Moscow, say. I think that even a Brit would have to agree with that! Along with the unfortunate fact that they, too, are now "Europeans." Hah! In fact, judging by the scenes I endured at Heathrow's Terminal 5 on 21 December 2010, they are practically Italians.

I was surprised to find that Vermont allows concealed carry of handguns, that they have practically no restrictions on owning and using guns to speak of. Of course there is more gun crime there than in Cuba but not so much as in many places with very strict gun laws, so go figure....

Not that I was really worried about this but I thought I should just check to make sure the usual suspects were still reading our Septic horoscope for us in regard to the latest senseless shooting. And so they are! Keep up the good work, guys! Why we ever threw the idea of being ruled by some fat German ponce overboard, God only knows, and with enough helpful chiding perhaps common sense may someday prevail.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 19:49   #92 (permalink)

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SAS

Quote:
Con....you remember the change in the Federal law pertaining to housing the Mentally Ill and how many tens of thousands of them were released back into society?
Yes, and all that came about because of a movie; 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.'

The liberals in Congress were so upset over that movie, the law was changed. Now the only way one can be committed to mental health facility is if they, the patient, agrees to be committed. Unless of course they kill or attempt to kill someone or commit other crimes against society and then are commited by a judge and jury.

The option of placing mentaly disturbed person into a mental health facility before they can kill or do harm, is no longer an option in the US.

What is the law in the UK on this, anybody know?
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 20:01   #93 (permalink)
bearfoil
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con

Now I remember from my Kesey that Randle Patrick McMurphy was astonished to find out that all the Geese in the Lock-up were, unlike he, Voluntary commitments. He was committed by Law, as he was a prisoner elsewhere before He actually "won" his commitment with the mentals.

Self appointed, he was "Bull Goose Loony". Mr Reagan tossed the mentals out here in Cali, and the Liberals had to flip, and form new NGO's to see to the care and feeding of the formerly well cared for "Tetched". the Libs have moved on to other rallying dogma, and most of the originals make a damn fine living on corners and off ramps.

Except when they freeze to death, or murder each other.

California, soon to be a place to be from. As soon as Oklahoma warms up its winters I'm looking at Tulsa, or Omaha.

bbbbear
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 20:10   #94 (permalink)

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California, soon to be a place to be from. As soon as Oklahoma warms up its winters I'm looking at Tulsa, or Omaha.
Great, come on down.







Oh, hate to tell you this, it is snowing here today and the low will be 08F tonight, AGW you know, sorry.







And, hmm, err, Omama is up in Nebraska. Stays cold up there a lot longer.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 20:12   #95 (permalink)
bearfoil
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Is O'mama the Pres' Mama?? If I think Obama is ugly, am I a "Facist" ??
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 20:16   #96 (permalink)
 
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Not to be pedantic, but, I think you'll find Russia is comfortably under half that distance (something around 1,800 SM) from the UK and can be reached from the UK by road or rail. It also, geopolitically, is part of the same landmass, and parts of Russia are considered to be European.
While the 56 mile figure is about right, it's from one place where the major population centers are lighthouses and walrus colonies to another, much the same.
Vladivostok to Anchorage is over 3,200 miles.
Vladivostok to Seattle is about 4,700 miles.

You have focused on pedantic and utterly irrelevant details consistently, such as the physical distance between the UK and Russia and virtually deserted areas of the U.S. and Russia.
Read the above quotes from own your posts and tell me if pedantry is something only down to me. But of course, if I prefaced my post with "not to be pedantic" all would have been well.

Quote:
I didn't address your politics,
Well of course not, since I have not expressed them
Quote:
I addressed the violence inherent in mobs of people who quite apparently don't understand their own political process.
I have already expressed my distaste for violence whether against people or things. But what a weird conception that those who manifest violence do not understand political process

Quote:
And you're lecturing me?
That would be futile. Your mind is made up in advance.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 21:09   #97 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What is the law in the UK on this, anybody know?
As far as I can remember, a person can only be stuck in an "institution" if:-

He/she asks for it (which means they aren't so deranged as they think so won't be sent there)

Someone persuades a doctor that he/she is so unstable they are a danger to themselves and/or others (harder than you think, in all honesty, unless the person is actively doing something that harms themselves or is actively harming others)

Goes the whole hog and then kills/harms others. By which time it is too late. The person doing the killing/harming can then use a fictitional mental illness, or even an existing one which has no bearing on the events that happened, as an "excuse" so he/she gets a lighter sentence.

Of course, the small matter of some being released and trusted to take their meds without supervision resulting in meds not being taken, a breakdown in themselves due to the lack of supervision, etc, resulting in some going absolutely crackers and then doing something which harms themselves and/or others is also an issue in the UK, like in various other countries.



Guess that, like in the US, is the joy of a "civilised" country.........
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 21:32   #98 (permalink)

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O'mama

Oops...........................
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 21:36   #99 (permalink)


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Quote:
Scotland tried the same with William Wallace and eventually achieved it through further revolution/victory at Bannockburn and with the Pope's help.
In one sentence so much inaccuracy. You aren't the screenwriter for Braveheart are you?

Why only paste the headline of a newspaper article? It is far more interesting to read the whole article
Trigger-happy Scots see gun ownership soar to ten-year high - Scotsman.com News

Gun ownership in Scotland is primarily for farmers and, err, sportsmen/women. Given that less than a mile from where I sit, 16 pupils and their teacher were shot dead, my viewpoint on gun ownership is fairly straightforward. It should be a privilege, similar to holding a driving licence. To give it the status of a right, is frankly an anachronism - but it is your country and if you want to believe that somehow that will protect you from "tyranny" you knock yourself out. My opinions have never changed anyone's viewpoint so I don't expect that today will be any different. However, some the opinions expressed on threads like this do simply solidify a few of the laughable stereotypes that the popular media portray.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 21:49   #100 (permalink)
 
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Bill Hicks:

Quote:
Surely the point is not what drove him to do this but how easy it was for him to do it...

Snip

...just suggesting perhaps 200+ years of civilian gun ownership is enough and it is time to try a new approach.
As a Brit who left our hallowed shores 22 years ago and have lived in the USA ever since I think I'm reasonably qualified to speak here but certainly not qualified to speak for Con-Pilot.

The problem with your "new approach" is that the "damage" is already done. What you are suggesting is somewhat akin to suggesting that the UK start driving on the right. It's all very well to suggest that the population can change their habits but the fact is the equipment for driving on the left is ubiquitous. Such is the USA... While the law abiding citizens could, quite easily, alter behaviours etc. the fact is there are millions and millions of weapons already in circulation. You'd actually be quite surprised who owns the guns, (the legal ones)... Not to mention that, (other than the panty waist, tree-hugging, lentil eating pansies), the only people who really want your "new approach" is the criminals who eagerly clean and oil their weapons as they await the disarming of their victims.

Signed

A non gun owning, pro 2nd Amendment Ex-Pat Brit in the USA...
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