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Old 1st Dec 2010, 09:50   #81 (permalink)
 
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so rh200,

as a question would you assert that the party that leaked the data on the UK MP's expenses which broke the scandal should also be put against a wall and shot ?

MPs' expenses mole: anger over Armed Forces' treatment led to leak - Telegraph
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 11:05   #82 (permalink)
 
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There is very little that government declares is secret, that only a few need to know is in reality dangerous for us to know. Infact - if there was more openess then there maybe far more trust.

One of the latest 'sensational' news items is that the US & it's allies were worried that Pakistan's nuclear weapons & technology could be compromised.

No Sh** Sherlock!

a) Is there anybody that doesn't doubt 'security' in that place known as Pakistan?
b) Didn't the good Doctor that fathered Pakistans nuclear technology sell it to any regime with a credit card?
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 11:48   #83 (permalink)
 
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How? The US government still has the original stuff so nothing has been stolen, only copied and disseminated.
Well, I still have my credit card details, but I'd be more than a little put out if they were copied and disseminated on wikileaks.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 12:23   #84 (permalink)
 
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stuckgear

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as a question would you assert that the party that leaked the data on the UK MP's expenses which broke the scandal should also be put against a wall and shot ?

Not at all, I made it clear this was not a one off, exposing a great evil.

The original person was military as we know it now, there could be more. But we all at one time complain about restrictions etc lack of trust in relation to some things we do, well this is why. Some people are entrusted with confidential information, to break that trust should be for extreme and specific purposes.

So what is extreme, well I suppose its up to each individuals conscience. This was just a political gambit, life will go on, but for the other 99.9% of the people who entrusted with confidential material, life will become more painful. There will be more rules and checks and balances, they will feel like they arn't trusted.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 14:00   #85 (permalink)
 
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here's the arrest warrant:

ASSANGE, JULIAN PAUL
Quote:
Offences
Categories of Offences: SEX CRIMES
Arrest Warrant Issued by: INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC PROSECUTION OFFICE IN GOTHENBURG / Sweden
Surely that should be "ALLEGED offences"

He's not been convicted of anything yet.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 14:52   #86 (permalink)
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Did anyone bother to click on stuckgear's Interpol arrest warrant link? Amazingly enough, the "INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC PROSECUTION OFFICE IN GOTHENBURG / Sweden" which issued the arrest warrant, couldn't even provide a photo of the actual suspect...?! Uhmmmm, let's have a moment of pity for all the other "J. ASSANGE"s flying Internationally over the next few weeks...

More to the point, this BBC News article reports that the Wikileaks cable leaks website/s have been hit by various and repeated DDoS attacks most recently.

Would anyone care to comment on who might be responsible for all / most of these attacks - the Americans, British, Pakistanis, Saudis, Iranians, Chinese, Israelis etc.? Apparently they all have "a lot of face to lose" from the recent minor disclosures (just a small fraction of all the documents to be published eventually).

I do understand that the "loss of face" issue diplomatically-speaking is an important one concerning certain cultures and especially those of Eastern Asian countries including China principally. But western diplomats should not be excused for their "faux pas" so easily. Nor be allowed to get away with it as their Chinese counter-parts invariably do so. Why? Because they're representatives of so-called "fully-fledged" western democracies. And therefore accountable. It's high time that western governments removed all secret and/or confidential classifications of governmental communications and documents. Enough of all these "30 year" or "100 year" rules before documents become available (in UK) for example.

By all means, classify certain documents as "top secret" or whatever. And by doing so, ensure that the general public are actually protected from terrorists aspiring to deadly destruction. As opposed to what I believe most western governments currently practise: that is to say, all that secrecy is mainly there to save any mere "loss of face" to previous government officials, whether or not remaining alive today and to their successors.

For example, if I indeed possessed some sort of "doomsday weapon", there would be no advantage obtained unless my adversaries were also provided sufficient details and proof that I indeed possessed such a weapon. Most secrets are designed to be leaked in a controllable fashion. What Wikileaks are doing is to expose several hundreds of thousands of documents which were never supposed to see daylight "before many decades had passed" in the sense that the general public (eg. you and me) were "to remain ignorant of and indifferent to it all" until we were all very old, or dead. I've no doubt that the few, "very important secrets that truly protect a country's national security" are still uhmmm, very secret.

There's much to be embarrassed about, undoubtedly much more to come too. And whilst it might make many cringe (in view of their previous publicly-held positions and reputations), the revelations should remove some of the most obscene opacities in diplomatic circles and International relations so that in future, we can "call a goat a goat" etc. Ex. military and ex. state dept. employees can always "quietly retire" and go off to work for some privately-owned defense corporation or other privately-funded "think-tank". Brits involved could similarly quietly go off to raise goats for cheese production in Cheshire or whatever.

Unless we're all destined one day to be found on a quiet country lane, dead, an apparent suicide...? So Julian Assange - wanted for "sex crimes" by Interpol on a worldwide warrant (without photo)?! But Mr. Assange would find some sanctuary I believe, should he pass at my abode. The Nazis of the WWII era may be long gone, but their antecedents know no bounds apparently. The rest of you who consider Wikileaks to be an enormous outrage should perhaps ask (ie. interrogate) themselves in-depth ASAP...?!

Wishing for "more openness, less opacity and less secrecy" when it comes to International relations: "Let the first blood be spilled amongst the hitherto overly-protected and irresponsable diplomatic corps elite", before spilling out and over into the real-world, where real-world consequences truly apply...
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 15:53   #87 (permalink)
 
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Why is it the US haven't even issued any sort of warrant against Assange?

Really that is the 64 million dollar question.

This is a precursor to an Iran invasion? Stranger things have happened.

And a Canadian government quasi senior official calling for his assassination, and refusing to withdraw that remark. Very, very disturbing that the official line there by staying quiet seems to concur with him.

Personally, I'm looking to the bank he mentions having their ass whipped. This is better entertainment than the X Factor.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 17:56   #88 (permalink)
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they work for you. You (hopefully) chose them, they are (ideally) doing what you want them to do,
Oh bnt!

There is a government, good or bad in the aggregate. Good or bad, it conceals secrets. We all have such a government. If it is bad, and becomes very bad, there is a revolution led by alternative Good Guys. So they say.

Good, notice; not perfect. Since they are not perfect, they have secrets that they guard from their Mums, Dads, Close Colleagues, and YOU. Always.

The new Good Guys hire the attack dogs (Stasi, OKRA, Secret Police) of the Bad Old Guys, and for the same reasons, which include the close guard of secrets from YOU and ME. That, and to Keep YOU and ME in order. Call it "National Security".

Think French Revolution, Russian Revolution, Any Revolution.

That is how it is.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 19:37   #89 (permalink)
 
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Interpol's document, I believe, is not an arrest warrant. It's merely a request for information on Mr Assange's whereabouts.

hmmm. on Interpol's website he's listed as wanted.


Quote:
Categories of Offences:SEX CRIMESArrest Warrant Issued by:INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC PROSECUTION OFFICE IN GOTHENBURG / Sweden
Quote:
Why is it the US haven't even issued any sort of warrant against Assange?

Really that is the 64 million dollar question.

This is a precursor to an Iran invasion? Stranger things have happened.

And a Canadian government quasi senior official calling for his assassination, and refusing to withdraw that remark. Very, very disturbing that the official line there by staying quiet seems to concur with him.

Personally, I'm looking to the bank he mentions having their ass whipped. This is better entertainment than the X Factor.
Well if the US issue an arrest warrant, it's kind opening a Pandora's box, seeing as government routinely not only receive but also solicit and reward for the provision of 'confidential' information.

It is quite good entertainment. All the saber rattling and indignation carries the stench of rank hypocrisy. its OK to gain leaked information if it suits a party, but if that party is left looking a tad silly over leaked information then making terrorist accusations and cites for assassination is bordering on hysterical.

and a canuck politician publicly inciting murder ?


After all, all thats been released is 'black and white' confirmation of what is already widely known anyway.

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Old 1st Dec 2010, 19:58   #90 (permalink)
 
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After all, all thats been released is 'black and white' confirmation of what is already widely known anyway.
Yes, and seemingly the next release includes a top secret US Gov investigation involving bears and forests.

Why is this knob-end getting so much publicity anyway.........
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 20:56   #91 (permalink)
 
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Why is he a nob end? Because he does something you don't agree with? Is everyone that doesn't act the way you like a nob end? Are the governments that scheme and conspire (you know - the minorities & elites that control the majorities) - are they nob ends? You accept that governments can do what they like - or are they nob ends?

The longer this goes on the more I side with Assange - yesterday US Secretary of Defence Bobbie Gates was on the idiot box saying that WikiLeaks could put US Soldiers at risk, next breath WikiLeaks would not effect US Foreign Policy, next breath that countries deal with USA not because they like them not because they trust USA to keep secrets but only because it is 'in their interest'.
Once again the government is bothered that it is 'embarrassing' and 'awkward' with this undefined threat that 'soldiers will be a risk'....

Keep releasing these documents Assange. You nob end.

Last edited by Load Toad; 1st Dec 2010 at 21:06.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 21:23   #92 (permalink)
 
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Atch, all the politicians that are getting soundbites over the issue are just playing to the peanut gallery

latest on the wikileaks revelations..

Quote:
David Cameron told the U.S. special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan that the Labour government 'let in some crazies', leaked diplomatic documents have revealed
as hellsbrink pointed out, tommorrow's revelations intelligence operation proves the 'pope is catholic'!

still it makes good copy to claim that Assange should be hunted down in the same way as a terrorist group thet hijacked two civil airliners and flew them into a new york tower or two and the pentagon.

or claim he should be assassinated.

If we had politicians of substance that dealt with effective policy, not play for cheap soundbites perhaps information wouldnt get leaked.

of course the fcukwits in parliament and on capitol hill can't see that staring them in the face.

gotta go, need to make a b/s press release to rile up the 'xyz''s got talent masses...

later 'tater
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 03:10   #93 (permalink)
 
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Somehow I find the people who brought us the Iraq Enterprise less trustworthy than Assange.

While the originators' loss of life in Iraq has been considerably smaller, it seems the expense has engendered a financial wreckage comparable to the loss of the Armada fleet
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 07:43   #94 (permalink)
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When I see the focus on Julian himself, rather than Wikileaks or the documents, I smell a rat, frankly. Classic disinformation strategy: make the story about the person, instead of the issues. Paint Wikileaks as his "personal crusade"; then, by discrediting the person (by whatever means), you can hopefully make Wikileaks go away and people will forget about the issues. Well, he might be the visible face of Wikileaks, but he's not doing it all himself, is he? You can be pretty sure that they'll keep going if anything happens to him.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 11:22   #95 (permalink)
 
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Yer, and D Notices.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 16:31   #96 (permalink)
 
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Doesn't obscure the fact that Assange is a nasty, delusional little piece of work. The Wikileaks crap is just sloppy, lazy journalism by hacks who will spend hours sniffing through the net for such biased garbage.

That [email protected] Tim Marshall on Sky, you know the one, effing expert on everything, has spent hours on this rubbish. It'll all be forgotten in a few weeks when the next prurient interest story drops into the hacks laps - they sure don't go looking for news if they can make it up or find it as easily as this tripe
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 17:42   #97 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Simonpro View Post
I've met Assange a couple of times, and he is without a doubt one of the strangest and scariest people I've come across.
He's a horrible, horrible man - and the only person that Assange cares about is Assange. Thank god we (Sweden) denied him residency.
Just out of curiosity, could you expand a bit more why you were feeling this way about the personage !?
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 17:54   #98 (permalink)
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Publishing houses are not usually asssociated with the news unless of course it's a story about JR Rowling. She touted that fantastic drivel of hers to several publishing houses, all of whom rejected her. Finally Bloomsbury, a rather erudite and small house, took her on. It's been the makng of them all!
Assange will become involved with a publishing house one day when either he writes his auto biography or, preferably, someone writes a posthumous biography . In the meantime it's all very similar to blackmail isn't it? None of it's news but it's all very selectively embarrassing, hurtful and damaging and rather immoral in a grubby kind of way. The payoff lies in the self satisfied notoriety, masturbatory self agrandissement to the deranged egoist, and the probable future rewards to be gleaned from the aforementioned memoirs or whatever. Perhaps Assange is suffering from blackmailer's syndrome by proxy? In any event, going to ground in jolly England is a merry jap. I'll bet he has a few Wikileaks to hold the British government's testicular attention in order to safe guard himself against deportation.
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 18:08   #99 (permalink)
 
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Why is it the US haven't even issued any sort of warrant against Assange?
For doing what?

The way I see it, the criminal behavior was by the idiot who chose to provide Assange with info that was not authorized for public release, or was classified. That is where warrants/charges are to be directed.

For example, when I had a high level clearance, had I provided some info to the CBC it's not CBC who would be charged. It would have been me.

Also needing a severe whack to the head is the people who failed to reconcile "need to know" versus info sharing requirements. No easy answer, but 'just open it all up to everyone' isn't a policy, it's an absence of policy and an absence of internal management controls.

Back in '04, we got an indepth brief from USAF OSI on the vulnerabilities of DoD computer systems to ... thumb drives.

This was in 2004. Hello, folks, if you knew the holes in our systems, what did you do about them? Huh?

It's not as though DoD wasn't aware of what the risks were, so what was done to deal with it, to mitigate risk?

Obviously, not enough ...
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This is a precursor to an Iran invasion?
No. What whole cloth did you fabricate that from?
Quote:
And a Canadian government quasi senior official calling for his assassination, and refusing to withdraw that remark.
Works for me.
Quote:
Very, very disturbing that the official line there by staying quiet seems to concur with him.
Maybe they understand the damage done better than you or I.
Quote:
Personally, I'm looking to the bank he mentions having their ass whipped. This is better entertainment than the X Factor.
Entertaining indeed.

But ask yourself: why does he choose a given bank, or nation, or whatever?

What's his axe to grind?
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 19:27   #100 (permalink)
 
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fish

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Entertaining indeed.

But ask yourself: why does he choose a given bank, or nation, or whatever?

What's his axe to grind?
Looks like he is suffering 'Bullied Nerd Syndrome". A bit like the losers who perform the shootings in American schools and they tend to be self destructive. Maybe the CIA turned him down in a job interview once?
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