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Old 29th Nov 2010, 11:06   #21 (permalink)
 
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I also second sitigeltfel's comments... nothing earth shatteringly new.

However, it's also a sign of the times with the distrust and loss of faith that is felt toward our political leaders, who are after all, elected by us, to represent us and serve us in our best interests.

Unfortunately, the political sector has become so involved in serving its own means rather than of those who foot the bill and bear the repercussions of political mismanagement; The electorate has lost faith and trust in political leadership.

When and if the trust is re-established, faith in political activities will be restored. After all who serves whom ?

To that mind, perhaps Assange is actually serving purpose in exposing in hard print the infantile, self-serving anctics of our public servants. They need to be brought to account of their masters, the electorate. It is only the first step in recovering capabale political leadership, rather than political leadership based on 'x-factor' public relations.

NB: That is not directed at the US specifically, but many, if not most, democratic states. The UK included.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 11:19   #22 (permalink)
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the "truth" will set us free
The problem is, Assange apparently doesn't filter what he publishes. Sure, the default is 'truth is best', but in world affairs, as in family affairs, there are some truths the revelation of which can do no good, only damage.

Unless Assange has God-like qualities (which he may be beginning to believe he has) how does he evaluate the consequences of each of the hundreds of thousands of pieces of information he is releasing?
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 11:29   #23 (permalink)
 
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I think he is self serving peice of #$%, if not then he is even more dangous and thinks the world should be a utopia. Another words it doesn't matter the consequences, you do what ever to satisfy your ideological view, very extremist like.

The facts are goverments have had dirty laundry since the dawn of time, some should be aired some shouldn't. Its one thing to drop the dirt on the armed forces, they'll take it on the chin every time and get on with the job. Its another thing airing diplomatic crap, these things can easily lead to some serious face saving, and stupid things can happen as a result.

I guess how many lives are these secrets worth? One thing though, if the guy ends up in a gutter somewhere, then there will be a long list of suspects.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 11:34   #24 (permalink)
 
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The problem with "Free Speech" is that it is NEVER free.
There's always a price to be paid one way or another.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 11:59   #25 (permalink)
 
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Hear, see no evil...

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Unless Assange has God-like qualities (which he may be beginning to believe he has) how does he evaluate the consequences of each of the hundreds of thousands of pieces of information he is releasing?
I take your point but I suspect that there will be an argument pro and con every release that has been made. I suspect ultimately out is better than in. This will give all governments and vested interests pause for thought in the future which may be a very good thing.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:10   #26 (permalink)
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I reckon you've both got a point, Namib and cattletruck. But would a world where hiding information is impossible would be for the better?

From a TV interview tonight with Assange:

Interviewer: “What drives you?”

Julian Assange: “Defending victims. I’m a combative person and I like crushing bastards. I find what I’m doing to be deeply, personally satisfying.”

Who knows what that means? Whatever else Assange is doing, the media love it. I wonder if they'd be so keen if the emails and transcripts were from Murdoch's Blackberry.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:30   #27 (permalink)
 
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transcripts were from Murdoch's Blackberry.
The Guardian would be delighted with that!
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:36   #28 (permalink)
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You have to say though, Gadaffi comes out of the leaks very well.. He travels everywhere with a Ukranian bird with big bangers.. good lad
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:44   #29 (permalink)
 
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Pot, kettle, black!

"inappropriate remarks by the Duke of York about a law enforcement agency and foreign country"
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:53   #30 (permalink)
 
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I think that, mostly, he is merely exposing several degrees of inappropriate arrogance.

Now, who does that best?
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:54   #31 (permalink)
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I was taught that if you didn't want people to know about something you were about to do, don't do it, that applies to governments just as much.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 12:58   #32 (permalink)


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The dude looks like he needs a shower, haircut and a good meal.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 13:07   #33 (permalink)
 
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Who did the leaking - And why?

Assange and wikileaks set themselves up to be a thorn in the side of the US government. They then get this windfall of diplomatic communications which is reckoned to show the US in a bad light; cue lots of protests from the US governement and equal determination from wikileaks to release the material.

But what do we find once it is released? No surprises, no real secrets and a lot of opinion, the sort of thing we've worked out for ourselves from reading and listening to foreign correspondants from the better quality media outlets(and PPRuNe too). All that build up from wikileaks for nothing.

Julian, you've been outleaked!
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 13:17   #34 (permalink)
 
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The dude looks like he needs a shower, haircut and a good meal.
Initially I thought you meant Gadaffi when I read this and was apt to think those Ukranian bangers must be very good indeed!

Mr Assange must feel a little like Serpico.

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Old 29th Nov 2010, 13:21   #35 (permalink)
 
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I wonder how long it will be before Assange's personal emails over the last few years hit the streets ? Would, or should we be interested ?

Also, if he is so keen on public disclosure perhaps he can explain the current unsavoury allegations against him, upheld by a Swedish court only last week other than to claim "an establishment smear campaign".

Pompous, arrogant and unaware of the real world having sat in his room as an internet geek for many years looking for some anarchist game to play. High stakes I think and he will find the heat very uncomfortable in the coming weeks.

All very titillating but frankly, who has the time to read all the guff in wikileaks ? The media will, and have, picked out the most juicy "newsworthy" of the leaked classified material, but I think this may well be a story with no real legs, other than the likely demise in court, one way or the other, of the unsavoury Assange ?

Diplomacy will continue and the private views of every other nation on others on this Earth would not bear such intense scrutiny either I suspect ?
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 13:25   #36 (permalink)
 
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However, it's also a sign of the times with the distrust and loss of faith that is felt toward our political leaders, who are after all, elected by us, to represent us and serve us in our best interests.

Unfortunately, the political sector has become so involved in serving its own means rather than of those who foot the bill and bear the repercussions of political mismanagement; The electorate has lost faith and trust in political leadership.
Absolutely!

All you have to do is read Al Gore's book 'Assault On Reason' to see just how bad politics is these days. Just as corrupt (if not more) that most of the corporations that have failed recently (or having been bailed out for that matter!).
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 13:57   #37 (permalink)
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OK, but is Assange's method the way to fight/reform/resist the problems you're referring to?

Governments are far from perfect, but there are also a lot of ill-intentioned bastards outside governments. Terrorists for example. I'm sure there are a lot of people sifting through the material looking for opportunities.

If any innocent deaths result from Assange's actions, I wonder how 'deeply, personally satisfying' he would find them.

I'm not denying there are problems with the behaviour of people in power and their associates, but it's a complex world and in my opinion Assange's blunt instrument is unlikely to be the cure.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 14:02   #38 (permalink)
 
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No action is devoid of an eventual effect, be it good or bad. The world needs the Julian Assanges as much as it needs discretion, tolerance, white lies and the occasional secret.

In the scheme of things Assange's own personal animus is of little real import.

On the security side of things I guess Richard Feynman summed it up perfectly in this essay!

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/cs588/safecracker.pdf
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 16:09   #39 (permalink)
 
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Governments are far from perfect, but there are also a lot of ill-intentioned bastards outside governments. Terrorists for example. I'm sure there are a lot of people sifting through the material looking for opportunities.
I doubt very much if there is anything here that the hard men and certainly the hard governments don't already have.

Assange hasn't become a spy to ferret out this data, he's simply published what a disaffected member of the US administration has given him. And if there is such an amateur mole, there will certainly be others with much more serious political or religious motives who have passed it and more to their masters.

We're only learning what others already know.
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Old 29th Nov 2010, 16:36   #40 (permalink)
 
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Sallyann1234,

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disaffected member of the US administration
US Army Specialist I believe.

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We're only learning what others already know.
Couldn't agree more. They say sunshine is a good disinfectant, but his one will most definitely sting.
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