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Old 16th Aug 2017, 17:46   #11601 (permalink)

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I haven't read the article myself but I have seen reports that the words "The Muslim Problem" appeared. If correctly reported, this can only be either a deliberate reference to "The Jewish Problem" (and thence "The Final Solution") or a proof positive that the person using the words is so thick and ignorant as to be completely and utterly and totally incompatible with public office. Either way a resignation is in order.


Of course she's now claiming that what was printed wasn't what she wrote. This is entirely possible - I've come across crooked journos myself. Things would look different if it wasn't actually her who wrote those three words.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 17:58   #11602 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I haven't read the article myself but I have seen reports that the words "The Muslim Problem" appeared. If correctly reported, this can only be either a deliberate reference to "The Jewish Problem" (and thence "The Final Solution") or a proof positive that the person using the words is so thick and ignorant as to be completely and utterly and totally incompatible with public office. Either way a resignation is in order.


Of course she's now claiming that what was printed wasn't what she wrote. This is entirely possible - I've come across crooked journos myself. Things would look different if it wasn't actually her who wrote those three words.

There is no mention of the words "The Muslim Problem" or even the religious beliefs of any perpetrators, in the article in The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/421864...g-white-girls/).

These seem to be the edited version of Sarah Champion's words from that article:

Quote:
BRITAIN has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls.

There. I said it. Does that make me a racist? Or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying problem for what it is?

For too long we have ignored the race of these abusers and, worse, tried to cover it up.

No more. These people are predators and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage.

We have to have grown-up conversations, however unpalatable, or in six months’ time we will be having this same scenario all over again.

The irony of all of this is that, by not dealing with the ethnicity of the abusers as a fact, political correctness has actually made the situation about race.

The perpetrators are criminals and we need to deal with them as such, not shy away from doing the right thing by fearing being called a racist.

I’m writing this as I don’t know what else to do to try and protect our children from grooming and sexual abuse by gangs.

I became the Member of Parliament for Rotherham in November 2012 and, within a month, I heard the abbreviation CSE (child sexual exploitation) for the first time.

Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council had been hauled in front of the Home Affairs Select Committee to justify their failure to protect young girls who were victims of this vile crime.

I sat stunned in the committee room, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

It was shocking. Mainly white pubescent girls were being sexually groomed and exploited by gangs of mainly British Pakistani men.

I had to do something. I would not be another person who turned a blind eye to these crimes.

Working with the children’s charity Barnardo’s, I launched a cross-party parliamentary inquiry into child sexual exploitation. We found that the judges were not properly supporting the victims in court.

Police weren’t always aware of the crime and the law needed changing so that police could act swiftly to prosecute on the first whiff of sexual grooming.

Most importantly, victims and survivors were not being believed or given the support they needed to rebuild their lives.

This had to change.

Following my inquiry, judges and the police receive better training and are now more aware of the crime. I changed the law on grooming.

However, victims did not — and still do not — get better support.
I find it hard to disagree with anything she said, TBH. All she seems to have done is tell the truth as she sees it, as someone who has been closely involved with one of the largest cases involving gangs of men of a predominately Asian background sexually and physically abusing young girls.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 18:00   #11603 (permalink)
 
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I am sorry to see her go. There is just too much political correctness now - it seems very much that if you don't agree or point out what are considered 'unpleasant' truths, then you are branded a wicked fascist or worse.

Just as in the US there is apparently a determined set of people who wish to destroy all their heritage, even the dark parts. Confederate statue pulled down in North Carolina - BBC News

Doubtless they would condemn IS and Taliban for similarly destroying statues in Syria and Iraq...
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 19:42   #11604 (permalink)

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The trouble about statues is that they to many people they commemorate their subjects in a positive way.

How many statues of Hitler are there? He was part of our heritage, just go onto the Mil forum and look at the RAF Brevet in WW2 thread....
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 22:25   #11605 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I haven't read the article myself but I have seen reports that the words "The Muslim Problem" appeared. If correctly reported, this can only be either a deliberate reference to "The Jewish Problem" (and thence "The Final Solution") or a proof positive that the person using the words is so thick and ignorant as to be completely and utterly and totally incompatible with public office. Either way a resignation is in order.
You see what you did there? You deliberately tarnished anyone who is campaigning against the rape and molestation of women and young girls as being a Nazi!

There never was "a Jewish problem", it was a made up narrative to demonise a religious and cultural group by fascists. The severe dangers facing women is anything but made up, it is there every day on the streets, the press and in the courts. Time and again a readily identifiable group are found culpable and shamefully the very people who should be voicing concern are in complete denial about the source of the problem. You and others who refuse to see what is in plain sight are just one step away from claiming that "the little sluts deserve it", such is your desperation to avoid having to face reality. In the twisted world of liberal opinion, the perpetrators are seen as the victims, and the real victims are the problem who are to be demonised. Shame on you, and those like you.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 22:50   #11606 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
I haven't read the article myself but I have seen reports that the words "The Muslim Problem" appeared. If correctly reported, this can only be either a deliberate reference to "The Jewish Problem" (and thence "The Final Solution") or a proof positive that the person using the words is so thick and ignorant as to be completely and utterly and totally incompatible with public office. Either way a resignation is in order.


Of course she's now claiming that what was printed wasn't what she wrote. This is entirely possible - I've come across crooked journos myself. Things would look different if it wasn't actually her who wrote those three words.
'I haven't read the article' but then you go on to pontificate, no wonder the country is in the state it is!
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 23:11   #11607 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
'I haven't read the article' but then you go on to pontificate, no wonder the country is in the state it is!
I just spat out my coffee at that one..
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 23:39   #11608 (permalink)
 
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I wonder how the progressives in society are going to spin this.......
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 04:21   #11609 (permalink)
 
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People on the left have a real problem with Islam, and it is one that I don't really understand. The religion has always been intolerant of those whom it sees as infidels.

Had Jews in 1930's Germany been going around blowing up and shooting people of other religions than you can quite see how some kind of policy that addressed the problem would have come about. The fact is that Islam is rooted in a bygone age where discrimination against women, gays etc was acceptable. Sadly for Islam it no longer is.

Equality is something that needs to be enforced for all of society, not for 95% and the for the rest a blind eye turned band saying "oh, they are Muslims". It really must not be allowed to work that way.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 06:07   #11610 (permalink)
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Well, there's a surprise.

All the chaps out in force with this "manna from heaven " moment which has resulted from this article. Much gurgling in the leafy shires and twee homes of manicured lawns and net curtains on Wisteria Avenue it seems.

Conveniently, if not deliberately, ignored was the column the letter appeared in. Along with the fact the Sun is hardly a reputable source of media comment.

This will, no doubt here on JB, be interpreted as "spin" or "denial " or just good old left wing PC propaganda .....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...revor-kavanagh

And, if there was no mention of the words " the Muslim problem", as we are solemnly assured, on here, not that being factually incorrect is setting any precedent, then I must be imagining the words at the end of this article.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/423565...y-immigration/
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 06:43   #11611 (permalink)
 
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I've read a fair bit about both the child grooming and abuse gangs and, more recently, the outcry about Sarah Champion.

I've not managed to find a single definitive statement, from anyone, that mentions religion. Sure ethnicity is mentioned, but then are we all supposed to just pretend that someone's background and upbringing isn't relevant?

There has to be a reason why these gangs have sprung up. This is unusual offending, and it seems that there may well be a link between the racial background of the perpetrators and the crime. I can guess why that may be, but to try and pretend, in the name of political correctness, that there isn't such a link, or that we are wrong to talk about it (as Sarah Champion tried to do, before she was effectively silenced) seems barking mad.

In order to try to prevent crime those fighting it have to try to understand why it's happening. This seems a relatively new form of child abuse, and doesn't seem related to the sort of paedophilia that the police etc have been dealing with in the past. The fact that they are operating in large gangs, are systematically selecting vulnerable young girls in significant numbers, and are organised enough to have sorted out premises in which to carry out multiple offences over long periods of time, differentiates them from the sort of paedophiles that we usually get to hear about.

If politicians, the police and other agencies are not allowed to openly discuss the profile of offenders like this, for fear of being called racist, then what hope do they have of effectively preventing more abuse like this? As someone said on the news a while ago, these gangs felt immune from investigation, because they knew that the police, and other agencies, were reluctant to investigate people with their racial background.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 06:45   #11612 (permalink)
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Quote:
Of course she's now claiming that what was printed wasn't what she wrote. This is entirely possible - I've come across crooked journos myself. Things would look different if it wasn't actually her who wrote those three words.
https://order-order.com/2017/08/16/s...r-sun-article/
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 07:00   #11613 (permalink)
 
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However, there is still the "fake news" that is at the heart of Sarah Champions reason for having to resign (or be pushed - I rather think it was the latter). It seems, that people are spreading around false stories that she used the three words "The Muslim Problem", when she doesn't seem to have ever even hinted at any religious beliefs, let alone use those offensive words.

It seems that the power of propaganda is more effective today that it has been in the past. Maybe President Trump has a point when he kept banging on about fake news (although he's a poor example, as he's played the same sort of fake news tricks as everyone else, I think).
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 07:33   #11614 (permalink)
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I've not managed to find a single definitive statement, from anyone, that mentions religion. Sure ethnicity is mentioned, but then are we all supposed to just pretend that someone's background and upbringing isn't relevant



Really ?......possibly one of the chaps could delicately offer the link I posted from the Sun, in which, Islam ( which, as far as I'm aware, is a religion...I could be wrong here if so, please feel free to offer an alternative interpretation or definition ) gets a mention.

But that's one of the many benefits of being open minded on here...having an "Ignore list " conveniently to hand, thus ensuring opinions, comments and diametrically opposed views can never be allowed to impede a one way flow and perspective.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 08:08   #11615 (permalink)
 
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Sajid Javid on Twitter

Corbyn wrong to sack Sarah Champion. We need an honest open debate on child sexual exploitation, including racial motivation

Someone else who thinks sacking a women for telling the truth is simply wrong.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 08:28   #11616 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Sajid Javid on Twitter

Corbyn wrong to sack Sarah Champion. We need an honest open debate on child sexual exploitation, including racial motivation

Someone else who thinks sacking a women for telling the truth is simply wrong.
Sorry to break the rule of a lifetime Seldom, but we'll have to be in 100% agreement on this one.

She made a mistake though in agreeing to apologise.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 08:46   #11617 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post

She made a mistake though in agreeing to apologise.
She did indeed, as she clearly had nothing at all to apologise for. Some of the journo's that have reported on this story do indeed have something to apologise for, though. They are the only ones making remarks that are bringing religious belief into this story; there is clearly no definitive source for making such assertions.

It seems that Sarah Champion chose her words carefully, and nothing she said could be construed as racist or against any particular religious belief.

I wonder who leant on her to get her to resign?

It seems strange to me, that someone with first hand experience of this problem (a big case was in her own constituency) and who had the courage to speak openly about it, has suddenly lost her courage, apologised where no apology was needed and been forced to resigned. It smacks of pressure being brought to bear on her from within her own party, perhaps.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 08:57   #11618 (permalink)
 
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It smacks of pressure being brought to bear on her from within her own party, perhaps.
It without a single shadow of a doubt came from within and it is utterly indefensible.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 09:03   #11619 (permalink)
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" They are the only ones making remarks that are bringing religious belief into this story; there is clearly no definitive source for making such assertions.

I take it there's and exclusion clause here on JB, both on this thread, the one on grooming gangs, and indeed numerous other posts all containing remarks about religious beliefs then ?
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