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Old 10th Jan 2008, 12:52   #1 (permalink)
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Deactivated Firearms to be banned in the UK

Quote:
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has announced plans to ban deactivated guns by the end of the year.

The Home Secretary said exemptions could be made for responsible collectors of deactivated firearms, of which there are an estimated 120,000 in Britain.

She said: "I will shortly consult on a way forward to allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms while giving the police and other enforcement agencies the powers they need to get black market firearms off our streets."

The move will affect weapons which were deactivated before 1995, when new standards were introduced to make it harder to convert non-firing guns back into lethal weapons. But police report that many firearms now being used in crime were deactivated before 1995.

A Home Office spokesman said any new law brought in as a result of the announcement would relate "almost entirely" to pre-1995 guns.

Ms Smith said: "We already have the tightest controls in Europe but there is more we can do to remove the threat of gun crime.

"Before 1995 the standards for deactivating guns were less stringent than those which currently apply. The police tell me these pre-1995 weapons are turning up more and more in gun-related crime and I want to address these concerns to effectively eliminate the threat from our streets."

The implications for museums with collections of antique weapons will also be considered by the Home Office.

The Home Secretary said she had also asked the Serious Organised Crime Agency - the low-profile law enforcement unit set up in 2006 - to prioritise gun crime.

Gill Marshall-Andrews of the Gun Control Network said: "We are delighted. This has been on our agenda for a long time. It is a big loophole in our firearms legislation."
What utter cr@p is this government going to come up with next in its nannying of the population.

Since the total ban on pistols came into force, gun offences involving them has rocketed thus proving how effective such twaddle is.
With regard to deactivated guns, I wonder what the real percentage of offences involving them in an offensive crime actually is bearing in mind that the rules governing such matters dictate that all offences, no matter how trivial are recorded as a firearms crime (air guns included).

I dont own a deactivated gun but do have some antique shotguns "off ticket" as they are over 100 years old and wonder how much more of this claptrap we are going to get before my guns fall victim to these career meddlers.

Why do we let them get away with it....New Labour?...roll on the next election where you will hopefully be relegated to the annals of history.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 15:09   #2 (permalink)

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Hypothetical Question:

What are you doing with a deactivated weapon?

It's not like a kitchen knife. You can't claim you need a deactivated gun to pummel the tomatos into peices.

A gun serves only one purpose. Killing. If you own one, that means you are prepared to kill if needs be. You point a deactivated weapon at someone, he thinks his life is in danger.

For this reason, I beleive that there's no such thing as over-controlling guns. If you hold one, you had better have a good reason. If you're interested enough, you will jump the hoops necessary to aquire one.

And there is no such thing as overkill once you pick up a firearm to harm another civilian.

With guns, it should be guilty until proven innocent.

Quote:
I dont own a deactivated gun but do have some antique shotguns "off ticket" as they are over 100 years old and wonder how much more of this claptrap we are going to get before my guns fall victim to these career meddlers.
Ahhhh diddums

Last edited by nosefirsteverytime; 10th Jan 2008 at 15:20.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 15:18   #3 (permalink)

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Does this qualify as a deactivated gun?



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Old 10th Jan 2008, 15:37   #4 (permalink)
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Well Mr Nosefirsteverytime, thank you for your concern and sympathy not that I want any.

It boils down to personal choice and a balanced decision from governments, not the usual twaddle peddled by this shower of faeces.

There are legitimate reasons for ownership, re-enactment, theatres etc as well as the more mundane (but invalid using your reasoning) of wanting to own a piece of history for display or just the satisfaction of ownership.

Using your logic of
Quote:
A gun serves only one purpose. Killing.
should we also ban the retired warbirds and military vehicles which after all were designed for the same purpose.

Its about overreaction and useless soundbites, kneejerk reactions which might seem to appease the public but in reality has no effect on the crime statistics which they are supposed to address.

Reading your reply, you are obviously one of the gullible, easily appeased electorate.

Do you really think that civilian owned guns are only used in crimes, that every time one is picked up it is with the intention to kill.

I have jumped through hoops for my gun licences which I do shoot with but my antique guns are showpieces and not fired.

Why should I not be allowed to own such things.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 15:46   #5 (permalink)

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Nose first you miss the point. A deactivated weapon under the act cannot kill anybody, unless you beat them senseless with the stock. If a weapon has been properly deactivated then it is, from an engineering point of view easier to build a weapon from a block of metal than make the deactivated one fire.

Many brave ex warriors like to hang on their walls at home examples of military hardware. They cannot fire bullets or grenades. They are no more dangerous than a stamp album.

If some yahoo breaks in, steals it and tries to do the local post office with it, then guess what, no one will get shot. Which is a lot better than if they went local and bought a nasty from a bloke in a pub that does work.

Stupid legislation.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 15:46   #6 (permalink)

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Quote:
A gun serves only one purpose. Killing. If you own one, that means you are prepared to kill if needs be. You point a deactivated weapon at someone, he thinks his life is in danger.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. The gun doesn't point itself at a person. A gun doesn't pull it's own trigger. Why not ban blunt knives? It's a dumb move by the nanny state yet again.

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Old 10th Jan 2008, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
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An update which backs up my reasoning.

Quote:
Shadow home secretary David Davis said deactivated weapons accounted for a tiny proportion of gun crime.

There were four recorded offences in England and Wales in 2005/06 in which a deactivated firearm was used, and a further four incidents involving reactivated weapons, out of a total of 21,521 recorded incidents.

Mr Davis said: "While we welcome any action, however overdue it may be, to tackle the scourge of gun crime, the Government's own figures show that in 2005/06 there were only eight incidents where deactivated or reactivated weapons were used - just 0.04% of gun offences. We need sustained action to tackle the other 99.6% of this serious problem, bearing in mind that gun violence has increased four-fold over the last 10 years."
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 16:34   #8 (permalink)
 
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Nosefirsteverytime, Why don't you go through your house and throw out everything you don't really need? Sure, no one needs a deactivated gun. No more than you need a picture on the wall or a second pair of shoes.

Banning deactivated guns is and was as pointless as banning the real thing. It didn't work. Worse still, the only people left in Britain with guns real or not will be criminals.

At least here in Ireland sanity prevailed eventually and handguns are back on sale.

Seeing as you live in the west you will enjoy this:

http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_p...dex&cPath=2_18

Get down to Galway city now. I can't decide whether to buy a Sig or a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 17:24   #9 (permalink)

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I dragged this way off topic, haven't I?

So you have to give a good reason to carry a gun, deactivated or not. Good.

Anyways, a rant below about gun control.


Quote:
Many brave ex warriors like to hang on their walls at home examples of military hardware. They cannot fire bullets or grenades. They are no more dangerous than a stamp album.
I wouldn't take it away from them. They have served with these weapons, and were drilled in how to use them. They are Gun Operators.

As for warbirds and tanks.
Imagine Cornwaller one: Oi Bob, worraya got that german armoured car fer?
Bob: Tha's fer gettin' me to work, reel interestin machine tha' *enters story of origin*
C 1: You be careful now, don't want to knock someone over wi' tha'
Bob: More chance'a me runnin' people over wi' car. Gorra test an' a licence fer tha, shows I go' the right to go drivin it. Don't want any old loon ter ge' one and go fillin' up ditches wi' cars.
C 1: too right.

Sharp pointy things like swords (not the way it is, but the way it should be).

Cornwaller one: Oi Bob, worraya got that ja-per-nese sword fer?
Bob: Tha's fer trainin' in me martial arts, reel interestin thing tha' *enters story of origin*
C 1: You be careful now, don't want to take somoene's eye out wi' tha'
Bob: Nah, I knows not to go stabbin' away with this. They only let you have a sharp one when you get yer black belt. Shows you understand how, an' more important, when ter be usin it. Don't want any old loon to get 'un and start slashin away in a town cen-ur.
C 1: too right.

Now then, a gun.

Cornwaller one: Bob, Worrayagot that there shotgun fer?
Bob: trainin' ter shoot pigeons.
C 1: You be careful now, tha's a dangerous yoke in yer 'ands. can't do nuthin exept shoot things wi' that.
Bob: Oh Oi know, Oi know. Went on a week long course there laas' munf. Wer like bein back in the Army agin. The were tough as nails them instructers, shouted the shit out of yers when yeh gorrit wrong. But we all learned 'ow o keep these thing safe, clean, an' out of the 'ands of gurriers. We's better than them now, we hold Gun Operators Licences.
C1: too right.

Licence to hold a weapon, activated or not. (Gun Holder Licence)
Second licence of competency to be able to shoot it. (Gun Operator Licence)
A bloody tough course for everyone who wants to go shooting.
And last of all, a Weapon Holders Register.
Edit: Most radical of all, an attitude of Zero tolerance of illegal firearms. Hlding a concealed firearm would become akin to attempted murder, and be punished as such.
Overkill? probably. But its better to over-legislate guns, than become like the "right to bear arms" US.

Like cars, and aircraft, guns should be a privelege earned,

Not a right.

Sort of like Martial arts, where only the more expert are allowed handle the actual weapon.

Last edited by nosefirsteverytime; 10th Jan 2008 at 17:42.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 17:25   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people
People get shot by people
people with guns
(Queen)
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 17:52   #11 (permalink)

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Quote:
People get shot by people
people with guns
(Queen)
People get stabbed by people.
People with knives.

People get bludgeoned by people.
People with blunt instruments.

It's the people who kill, not the instrument.

Certainly no one has been shot with a deactivated gun.

Where's Mr Draper?

Ozzy
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 17:59   #12 (permalink)
 
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Once again the government falls under the misapprehension that legislation alone without enforcement prevents crime.

Much the same mentality as threatening to raise the drinking age and the driving age. Whilst 13 year old criminals steal cars, get drunk and stoned with impunity, such measure just restrict the law abiding community without making a jot of difference to those who have no respect for the law.

When the inevitable deactivated gun amnesty is announced will anyone be surprised to find that 100% of the guns that are confiscated come from law abiding citizens who pose no threat to anyone else, and 0% come from the the criminals who want to continue using them in stickups.

Another pointless law that does nothing to prevent crime but everything to punish normal people.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:02   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
A gun serves only one purpose. Killing. If you own one, that means you are prepared to kill if needs be. You point a deactivated weapon at someone, he thinks his life is in danger.
Statistically speaking, the greatest & best use of guns is for threatening. This broadly applies to both military and civillian applications. A credible threat, artfully presented, often serves to avoid violence, rather than to increase it.

One wonders how many anti-gun advocates fall prey to the swift dirk instead of their poster nemesis. More than a few, one reckons.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:08   #14 (permalink)
 
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deactivated weapon

If I have a vasectomy, will I be banned as well?
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:28   #15 (permalink)
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I posted this some months ago, while intending it to be funny, it was essentially true.


People here do not understand about British pubs. Every day little things happen in them that is the very essence of village life. For instance, last summer. A pal comes over to where I'm sitting with an old friend, and pulls out a gun. "Nice isn't it?" he asks. "Mmmm...but are you supposed to have it ****?" I asked. "Well no, but it's nice isn't it?"

Now it's local knowledge that this fellow has been sectioned under the mental health act, after a bizarre incident in another pub. He was defending the word of God and told the bewildered officer. "It's alright, I'm a detective....to prove it, my gun is in my bag." It was. They let him out some weeks later, partly because the gun had a ‘disabled' certificate, but mostly because the medication had kicked in. Now here he was again, with another old relic, trying to have it repaired and indeed admired.

Now the point is, that everyone knew him, most tried to help him, and when he takes the pills he's fine fellow and very good company. It also happens that the new landlord is an ex police inspector....but he has invested an huge amount in the pub and also knows the offender's history. A stable, if not quite appropriate situation. Along comes another character who says that he objects to this...in principal. He has downed six pints and is just about to leave in his car. So principals are a matter of perspective it seems. Anyway he phones the police. They duly arrive in a scene befitting Z cars, and park in such a way that Douglas Adams would have described it as "anyone that thinks they can use this road, or approach this pub....can fcuk off!!"

Now this is the bit that struck me as being very funny. The landlord comes out, looks at all his old colleague–who are having the best day since a man ran himself over trying to escape after a local robbery–and simply tells them to go away. There was a low pitched ooooohhh, and they all went home. A chase and a shoot-out would not have compared to the disappointed little faces looking over the cars. If I had paid true value to be entertained like this, I would have had to part with a fortune.

Oops time again. Obviously written cos of terminal pub deprivation
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:44   #16 (permalink)
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The purpose of a gun

The purpose of a gun varies from place to place.

In the UK the purpose of a gun is to rob or kill citizens who have lost the right and privilege to defend themselves.

In the US the purpose of a gun is to rob or kill citizens, or for citizens to defend their homes, families, and selves from people who wish to rob or kill them.

Like nuclear weapons, on a small scale, the objective is deterrence, and if deterrence fails...
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 18:57   #17 (permalink)
 
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G/f has several "replica" flintlock pistols on her wall...[They look nice]. If I "borrow" one, and walk into the local Supermarket, waving it around, I don't [for a moment] think that the local Constabulary is going to invite me to Tea and Bikkies.....
watp,iktch
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 19:50   #18 (permalink)
 
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A couple of points covered in the news.

Weapons that have been deactivated after 1991 are almost impossible to make work but that isn't the case for those done pre-1991.

Howver I doubt whether this legislation will have any effect....the opposition claim that only a few percent of gun crimes have involved "re-activated" guns.

The main source of weapons is said to be conversions of starter pistols...
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 19:56   #19 (permalink)
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Wow! And you'll go along with it, like you did the original firearms ban.



Simply amaa-aa-aaazing to me.
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Old 10th Jan 2008, 20:01   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
The Home Secretary said exemptions could be made for responsible collectors of deactivated firearms, of which there are an estimated 120,000 in Britain.
She said: "I will shortly consult on a way forward to allow genuine curators to collect legitimate firearms
As a point of interest, are (legitimate) museums allowed to keep items that are otherwise deemed to be illegal when in the hands of the general public?
If not, then the Imperial War Museum (especially the one at Leeds) might be denuded of exhibits . . .
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