DJIA down 600 more points, it has absentee voted and decided BHO has won. I'll bet his anti-capitalist, anti-free market plans drive the Dow below 8000
GF, so it is BHO who is responsible for this mess the world economies are in? You know here in in Aus, I think most of us thought it was GWB (maybe cheney)that was in power for the last 8 years, deciding what is good for the USA, and by default, the rest of us.
If that is the power of BHO, as a senator, then imagine what he can do if he gets elected president. I must say tho that I would feel those that say the choices are poor would get my vote. It will be the case of 'the best of a bad bunch' I think.
I struggle to understand how obviously intelligent people could even bring themselves to thinking Palin will contribute anything much in value, in this time of world crisis. Any chance that you could have a redraw and get someone like Buffet to run? 'Patreus', or someone else with intelligence, guts and planning gifts, as his deputy.
Dreaming of something usefull is about all we have left in this 'meltdown' There is no doubt now we are heading well beyond 'ugly' for a long time.
They're both betting on the future earnings as reflected in today's prices. Short or long, the judgement is the same-poor future business prospects.
Exactly what has BHO said in the past three weeks to assure all you BHO supporters that he has a magic answer to the economy? I'm sure his increased taxes will help the banks and the economy; his increased capital gains taxes are certain to encourage investors; making unions less democratic should encourage employers to hire more labor; piling on costs to employers for health care will, no doubt help employers; ripping up NAFTA ought to encourage foreigners, to whom we are deeply indebted, to invest in the credibility of the US. Get Real, he's plan is empty-but, unfortunately, the Republicans led by McCain are not presenting an alternative.
Prospector, we had the Bretton-Woods agreement (the gold standard) until 1971*. The agreement was instituted to prevent the bullsh1t that is occurring now AFTER it had occurred previously in the 1930s.
*who ditched it? A bent and crooked Republican trying to fund a war with money he didn't have. Google: Nixon Shock
Also, when your pension buys some stock it hedges by often buying a put option or selling a call. Traders take the oppositie positions and act as the customer.
Oh, that's right you are on a government retirement plan.
Sneer away "my friend". There's a lot of people out there thanking their lucky stars they have a Government retirement plan -- Social Security. Looks like they'll be needing it.
Good thing McCain and his buddy Bush didn't get to "privatize" it. (Tip of the hat to Maggie and Saint Ronald.)
Perhaps you'd like to read a little about what "retirement" was like before Social Security.
GTF, I admire your ability to absolutely ignore what you don't like and just press on with your remarks. It's not very gracious of you, but I do admire the hutzpah...
You do recall Senator Biden's well-meaning, but very condescending, remarks about Obama when the cult was first starting to disturb the palace?
Something along the lines of "He's clean, articulate...."
The firestorm from the sandal crowd forced Biden to quickly explain himself.
Guess all is forgiven as he's on the ticket and a heartbeat away from his prize himself.
I, too, am a product of Georgia. I'm fine with what I see in the mirror.
Matari & Chuks... was having a little soup, reading today's posts, in all of it's seriousness of which none of us has any influence in the outcome and nearly spewed said dinner on the screen. Thanks for finding the humor because it was needed. I truly did laugh out loud!
America is the big kid on the block granted, well has been for a long time now, how much longer is still to be decided.
But to put all the blame on one political party in one country for the meltdown in the world financial markets is far to simplistic.
How many countries, mainly in the "Western World" have been living way beyond their means for years now. The bill has to be paid eventually, and if all thats left in the kitty is bundled up trash from the Investment Banks, who have been allowed to run wild, that is the crux of the problem. Who allowed them to behave in this way will be argued for years. As will who had the power to stop them and did not exert that power.
In the meantime many millions of people, who had no hand in this debacle will be suffering for a long time.
Where did I say he was responsible for the economic mess? I said the markets are looking at his recently improved chances of winning and his proposed policies of more government intervention and decided they didn't like that future-beating down the US markets.
I'm ex-AF Reserve, I gotta wait 'til 60 to collect, if there is anything left. GTF, you might think Social Security is a sure thing, but it ain't. It is a political promise which numerous court cases have held to be nothing but a promise that any Congress can renege on. In fact, it was greatly reneged upon in 1983-retirement ages increased, taxes levied on certain incomes, etc. Mine will be 85% taxed at a huge marginal rate. And will again with inflation, don't worry, they'll change the COLA allowances. It is utterly dependent on the state of economy and its productivity. We cannot spend more than we can produce.
Aussies-How is the Rudd government doing with the economy? It was pretty good under Howard for 12 years or so.
You ask who allowed them to get away with this. The answer is - the public.
I am just an old Socialist type person who saw all this shit comin but, who is gonna listen to the guy in the boozer?
A greater question is who encouraged the public to swallow the crap?
I live in England and read the Guardian amongst other papers. A colleague was thinkin of doin a buy-to-let deal and, fortunately I bitched at her not to. The Murdoch controlled papers were saying all was fine. There is your problem: who controls the media?
This problem has been brought about by the laissez-faere of Thatcher/Reagan initiated markets that media bought into and perpetuated, leading all the sheep to think that the feeding trough will always be full (sorry to mix metaphors). We lost sight of the fact that if you produce bugger all you don't get paid and this was compounded by the guys in designer kit in the city thinking they had some kind of God given power. I would say 'Oh how the mighty fall' but it is OUR money bailing them out. Methinks too many white powders led to this and nations got sold a dummy.
It is time to get real and start looking at how we actually produce tangible goods.
al446,
"You ask who allowed them to get away with this. The answer is - the public."
Afraid you are correct. I am no financial whizz kid, but I have been reading as to why and how this collapse was going to happen for at least three years now, and many other millions of people no doubt have also been keeping a tab on this obscene greed from these white collar unethical people who call themselves investment bankers.
I can remember reading how Goldman Sucks and Lehman Bros paid everybody in the firm an average of $600,000 odd only a year or two back, for producing what???
tons of toxic waste. Cant call them white collar criminals because our lawmakers did not make such actions illegal.
Everyone of those actions is going to lead us into a FDR-style Depression for the same reason-bad economic policies.
It's no wonder you can't keep your history straight, GF.
Quote:
Barney Frank and his lover are making a movie about the housing debacle
You can't even keep the present straight.
Enjoy being the "loyal opposition". Take a lesson from today. Demonizing the opposition doesn't work forever. You have to govern. And when you're "lucky" enough to have the Presidency and both houses of Congress, it's your policies that sink of swim.
McCain has one last debate left.
He better pull this one out his ass and say something that will change the voters
opinions here.
During the campaign in Wisconsin today with him voters are angry.
They asked was people going to be held responsible for this fallout on the markets and would those responsible be held to account and be dealt with.
This is what he should be foucusing on.
He stated yes. Ok Mccain this is where the rubber meets the road.
Either shit or get off the pot.
Or you can count on Obama becoming the next President and commander in Chief.
We the American people need answers.
So far your song and dance is not doing it dude.
MCcain was on watch when all this happened, yes its on his CV/resume.
What he is are now is the same as George Bush, no direction and no answers.
Mccain way behind in every poll around.
Yes the military vote is there but not strong enough to carry the election.
Wake UP!!!!
What happened with this wall street mess?
People need to go to prison at Freddie May and the rest of these idiots, how soon can we expect this?
You don't get to do these things and get a free pass at taxpayers expense.
This bailout is not working, markets are still failing, what is your plan now, you want to be the president you better have one?
With the war in Iraq why with so much Iraqi oil is none of it being used to pay the cost of this war and where has the money gone, since we are using our money to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq?
We can add much to this, but unless he can answer these basic questions he is finished.
I hope this changes and he can do better.
Palin on TV today was sounding like some MILF in A bar.
And we all know how easy and useless those are.
GTF... I'm guessing you don't see the humor--much less any of the Dem's share in the blame, still.
CoF,
Every politician I've heard speak about the financial crisis has said something to the effect of "there is plenty of blame to go around."
I was listening to a guy -- a real smart guy -- tell me about his view from the inside. It turns out that -- if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.
Poor people trying to get into a home didn't outsmart Wall Street. Wall Street outsmarted itself. It was making money and didn't really care what it was buying. Toxic waste or not -- they we're making money. Billions and billions. What did the top hedge fund manager make ? $4 billion ? It boggles the mind. That guy could bail out Iceland by himself.
I don't have any illusions about Democrats. Nor Republicans. This was a Republican party and I'm pretty sure the voters know it.
Oh, and no, I don't see the humor in people losing their jobs, homes and retirements.
Personally with people losing there homes here in the USA I don't think either candidate cares one bit,.Bailing out Wall street, they caused this to begin with.
If just one of these 2 idiots would come up with a plan that would help America they would win the election.
But once again we have no one to vote for.
Obama full of lies.
Mccain full of shit, all of this happened on his watch, Mr. Military man!!!
Its time that people politicians are held responsible for these things.
Remember something that we all sometimes forget, they work for us, we don't work for them..
If we as crew flew a 747 the way that the US government operates we would kill everyone before we did V1.
Its time for some answerers here,otherwise we all will have some big problems that will get bigger.
I remember my father a WWII vet telling me about the great depression, was not a good thing, he also served on the USS Hornet, that was sunk, and survived.
Now I look back at these things and realize my parents were not so stupid after all.
Its all coming back now.
Seems are fathers have all experienced these things before,lets don't repeat history now and make the same mistakes again.
Time to take a big Voice Mccain!!!
You know here in in Aus, I think most of us thought it was GWB (maybe cheney
)that was in power for the last 8 years, deciding what is good for the USA, and by default, the rest of us.
There is no doubt now we are heading well beyond 'ugly' for a long time.
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