I was out there supporting the European economy by taking a trip to Madrid on my motorcyle.
Things did not work out as planned, with the largest single expenditure being a Bridgestone BT-014R tire. (Not a lot of people know this but Bridgestone got its name because it was once a daughter firm of the American tire company Firestone. Now Firestone is all but gone except as a niche producer of cheap and nasty tires for its Japanese owner, Bridgestone, one of the world leaders in tires.)
The next-largest was for a flight in a Cessna 152, made in Wichita, Kansas, U.S.A.
I see that the usual suspects are still at it, attempting, for instance, to explain that everyone will like us again if only we elect a Democrat for President. I like that one! Some jerk with pre-programmed and deep-seated anti-American thought processes thinks he's going to change overnight... Oh, yeah. Me too; as soon as some sound Tory takes the reins in the U.K. I plane to move there, marry a local girl and settle down, if only for the food and the weather.
Juud, brink-wise, well, we Americans have definite short-term memory problems. By the time the first week in November rolls around it will probably be a case of "Crisis? What crisis?" Bush might push something that causes fuel prices to drop by 10 cents a gallon and, hey, "It is morning again in America!"
Well, something like that; do not understimate the stupidity of the American public in the face of the Prez jerking their collective chains. There's alway some sort of reality cut-out at work between "reality" and "American reality."
Count your blessings, though; we do come over to Europe to pull your chestnuts out of the fire now and then. Would we do that for folks who don't even like us much if we were not sort of stupid?
Okay, okay, it is much more complicated than that but I was left gazing at a monument to the 158th Combat Support Group, thanks to a wrong turn in a Belgian village, thinking, "Durn! All the way from Kansas just to get wiped out in a German ambush here in the middle of nowhere. I hope Maw and Paw liked the stone."
Yeah, "cannon fodder..." I like that one and may the Bird of Paradise fly up your nose.
A proper response to your question would entail a treatise supported by years of research, elaborate cause and effect relationship study, and access to the inner workings of the teams of each candidate. I don't have time for that now, but one day...
From my admittedly provincial, American perspective, I think your premise is wrong in that I see the US as being further from 'the brink' than any country in the world. Think about it.
Sure, we have a crisis du jour in that the financial system is in the turmoil of deleveraging capital structures whose previous assumptions have proven problematic. Conventional wisdom has long held that if the US sneezes, others catch the cold. Now we might have to wonder what happens if the US catches cold, and then perhaps pneumonia.
Today's headscratching financial worries are just a warm up for when the real crises of insolvent social security and medicare/medicaid funding, which we've been warned about for years, and have no excuse to be blindsided by in our dotage, go kaput. "We regret to inform you that the program providing you your monthly entitlement check is no longer operating. However, the United State Grief Couseling Administration stands ready to meet your emotional needs. God Bless America."
An Obama administration, unchecked by an opposition Congress, is unlikely to address the entitlement elephant other than to make it bigger. Free lunch. When Bush tried to divert some of the 14% tax we pay to SSAN to personal savings, with an accountable asset accruing to each worker, the resulting outcry proved to be the first chink in the armor of his approval ratings, even before disaffection with the Iraq war became widespread. It truly is the third rail of American politics - don't mess with our entitlements! But they will be messed with someday, as will yours, Juud.
All of the above is only framework to enable me to answer you, Juud. I don't think either candidate has any detailed economic plan, and I don't care. I'm voting for an ethic, not a program. It doesn't even matter how smart or experienced the candidate is. It's the ethic that counts. The president doesn't really run things, but rather appoints the people who do.
Reagan, Truman, T. Roosevelt (seemingly everyone's favorite today) were not intellectual, much experienced, highly educated (did Truman even have a college degree?), or widely predicted to be successful as presidents when assuming office. Jimmy Carter was highly educated, had a scientific mind, was honest and principled, even if something of a 'religious wacko' in today's jargon, and is on the short list of America's worst presidents. So I think if you're smart you vote for the ethic most matching your views. How does the candidate think? How will he/she respond to situations we can't foresee? Who cares what the 'plan' is? As soon as events occur, plans go out the window.
So for me, a libertarian soul who values freedom above all, then security of the country, then economic well-being, the choice is simple. If I vote left, I can expect bigger government, more entitlements resulting in higher taxes, more nanny state intrusions, less security, and less freedom. If I vote right, I'm endorsing individual responsibility and accountability, more freedom, more security, and lower taxes. My choice is clear.
Of course there are exceptions in both parties. Republicans have squandered their mandate by, in my estimation, reverting to Democraticness, and are trying now to recover. Palin's exuberant reception among Republicans is evidence of the ethic we support - she has lived it, and promises for us more of it.
Sunray, I'm confused. If Obama will restore American power, as you suggest, why aren't you supporting McCain?
Last edited by BenThere : 18th September 2008 at 17:30.
Chuck, since my honest wish to understand American politics apparently is enough reason for you to address that unwarranted and aggressive tirade to me, I suggest you & your high horse sod right off.
All I was saying directly to the entity known as "Juud" was that we won't be having a crisis by the time "We tha peeple" hit the election booths to pull levers and leave chads hanging. Your question about who's going to pull us back from the brink, if I understood you correctly, well, that won't matter much by November. One big Wall Street investment bank more or less is not something that The Celebrated Man In The Street really will care about by then.
Anyway, yes, I apologise for having upset you and I am now off to flog my high horse for its part in whatever I did wrong there. Consider me as having sodded off. But like one of my cinematic heroes, "I'll be back." If this doesn't suffice then please take a number and join the long line of folks I have annoyed. Yours is 137B and we are currently dealing with 662A so that it may be some time before we get back to you on this...
It might be your thread, Juud, but there are many more people than you posting here so that I tend to bundle my jeremiads for dispatch. You probably got a message that was not really meant for you at all.
You seem to be at least honestly curious about what we Yanks get up to where many more posting here seem to think they already know us. Many of them are offering completely fascinating explanations of what shall come to pass in America based on a reality I cannot recognise. (I suppose I simply did not take the right courses at university during the brief time I was there.)
How much for a new hospital (or 50); for a new ATC system; For a local community program where unemployment is so high (because one of the DOW30 has laid you off), its the Army (fodder) or demise?
Chuck, since my honest wish to understand American politics...
I think the dialogue you witness in these pages, particularly in response to your question, has told you all you need to know about Politics here and why once again it has descended to the level of "My Dick's bigger than yours" infantile name calling.
Don't look for anything more insightful, you'll just end up having a really long day.
Chuks,
This is rehashing an endless battle that goes on here on PPRuNe, but if your mention of the 158th Combat Support Group was an attempt at playing the guilt card on Europeans, try following the lead of those other, smaller nations (New Zealand, Australia, Fiji, India, Nepal, South Africa...) that travelled even further distances as far back as September 1939 to defend against fascism. They seldom hark back to their actions in an attempt to belittle Europe. They came to Europe's aid because they felt duty bound, regardless of cost, and not to to create some sort of moral credit that could be cashed in on some 70 years on.
Benthere,
Those are all sound values, but couldn't you have further liberty (for a paltry increase in tax) if your internal security was guaranteed through the increased wellbeing of others? Freedom is one thing if you are in a position to enjoy freedom. For the poor wage slave at the bottom of the barrel (or poor nation at the bottom of the barrel) the freedom you enjoy can be detrimental to theirs. Shouldn't the liberterian voter be seeking liberty for all rather than just themselves?
I've got no problem with America being in a powerful position per se. If you truly want to 'lead' be my guest. I just think a McCain/Palin leadership will take us down the route of violence and environemental degredation, ensuring primacy through coercion - as Palin said "America first". That scares me - we need to be a little more international in our outlook in these times. Obama on the other hand seems more likely to present an America that others would emulate by choice rather than under duress.
Sunray Minor Chuks,
This is rehashing an endless battle that goes on here on PPRuNe, but if your mention of the 158th Combat Support Group was an attempt at playing the guilt card on Europeans, try following the lead of those other, smaller nations (New Zealand, Australia, Fiji, India, Nepal, South Africa...) that travelled even further distances as far back as September 1939 to defend against fascism. They seldom hark back to their actions in an attempt to belittle Europe. They came to Europe's aid because they felt duty bound, regardless of cost, and not to to create some sort of moral credit that could be cashed in on some 70 years on.
Reality check for you Sunray. Most of the countries you mentioned (Oz, NZ, India, Nepal, SA) got into it in 1939 for the same reason some of the same did in 1914...because they were part of the British Empire or interests and "duty" meant obedience to Mother England, who in turn needed cannon fodder to serve her own Euro and/or colonial interests.
Please don't try to sell the notion that they were there "early" because they woke up one day, read about a faraway war in Europe, and decided "Hey lets go fight those Nazis too for the good of all Mankind.".
In 1939, as it was in 1914, the U.S. was an independent country....not a Territory, Colony, Commonwealth, Protectorate, or Mandate of some monarchal Empire of Old Europe. The idea that America was "late" to a European war is ridiculous on it's face. We could have as easily dealt with the Japanese and simply sat on the sidelines watching the Euros bleed themselves white again, and done business with either Adolph or Joseph...whichever one wound up running the show...when it was all over.
That's my suggestion for the next time it happens.
Last edited by AMF : 18th September 2008 at 20:42.
GTF, you seem to like talking, particularly about things you weren't asked.
StbdD,
I love to talk. Wrote my own column, got my own blog and everything. Yammer, yammer, yammer. Talk, talk, talk. I go on and on.
Unfortunately for you, I talk about what I want to talk about -- not what you'd wish I'd talk about. If you've got the dirt on Obama, send it to The New York Times. The man's been running in the spotlight for almost 2 years but I'm sure you have the scoop.
Quote:
Go ahead and make childish fun of other political names again. Every vote counts.
You like that ? I learned it from the Republicans. I thought we'd all moved past that. The last two elections have proved me wrong.
And by the way ? I live in Georgia. You'd be wrong if you thought every vote counts.
On July 31, 2002, Cathy Cox, Georgia's Secretary of State, signed a contract with Diebold, allowing the firm to distribute electronic voting machines throughout the state and design the ballots.[8]
In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, then the chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fund-raiser for President George W. Bush and had sent a get-out-the-funds letter to 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends in the Republican Party, to be held at his home in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio.[9] When assailed by critics for the conflict of interest, he pointed out that the company's election machines division is run out of Texas by a registered Democrat. Nonetheless, he vowed to lower his political profile lest his personal actions harm the company.
In December 2005, O'Dell resigned following reports that the company was facing securities fraud litigation surrounding charges of insider trading.[10]
In March 2007, it was reported by the Associated Press that Diebold was considering divesting itself of its voting machine subsidiary because it was "widely seen as tarnishing the company's reputation".[5]
In August 2007, Wikipedia Scanner found that edits via the company's IP addresses occurred to Diebold's Wikipedia article, removing criticisms of the company's products, references to its CEO's fund-raising for President Bush and other negative criticism from the Wikipedia page about the company in November 2005
Sunray, Governor Palin may scare you, but remember what Lord Palmerston said to the British Parliament on March 1, 1848:
"We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow”.
Why should that scare you? What else do you expect? Do you disagree? If you do to what extent? Do you truly think the UK gave that guarantee to Poland back in 1939 or so out of sheer love for the Poles?
Given that Governor Palin is the Governor of a State of the Union and a candidate for one of the Union’s highest federal offices, how could she justify any position other than the one she states which, by happy chance, is identical, mutatis mutandis, to that of your own great Prime Minister.
P.S. I expect they just can't tear the lassie away from her "Lord Palmerston" by Jasper Ridley, E P Dutton & Co., NY, 1971. First published in the USA! Imagine!
Last edited by Davaar : 18th September 2008 at 21:16.
Reason: To add PostScript
Unlike the Republican party, the Democrats I suspect would take a far more constructive attitude to the UN (what could be worse than placing someone like Bolton as your representitive?!). In doing so the power of the US would likewise be increased.
Sunray,
I can't find anything to argue with about your post except to say that foreign policy won't win an election. Embarrassment over our recent foreign policy might change some minds but the issue itself won't.
Attitudes are slowly changing. I don't know if it's this way in other countries or if others can understand how deep the symptoms run in America but...I have a slanted view of things, living down here in the South.
My wife and I have Obama stickers on our cars. We're in the middle of a very Red (Republican) county in a very Red State. My wife honestly fears the reaction it invokes in some people. But she didn't grow up down here. I did. I recognize the hate but I don't fear it.
Anyway, from this small little gesture -- bumper stickers -- we have people stopping us and emailing us, whispering their support. My wife calls them "closet Democrats". They support some of the causes, or recognize that we need to change, but they are afraid of the social ostracization that might come from being identified as a Democrat. Obviously this isn't true in every region of the country. But it's true down here. I hesitate to say it but it's the same fear of fear that has allowed racism to survive so long down here. We've come a long way from the violence that instilled that fear -- real fear -- but the habit lingers.
Anyway, I'm getting far afield. I understand what you're saying but winning the election won't be that simple. Logic alone will not work. Down here at least, Democrats will have to overcome the fear that dominates logic.
Reality check for you Sunray. Most of the countries you mentioned (Oz, NZ, India, Nepal, SA) got into it in 1939 for the same reason some of the same did in 1914...because they were part of the British Empire or interests and "duty" meant obedience to Mother England, who in turn needed cannon fodder to serve her own Euro and/or colonial interests.
I was getting ready to post nearly the same answer AMF. I'm glad I rechecked the last page.
Some people just cannot accept the fact that, until Hitler declared war on the United States on December 9, 1941, the war in Europe was not our war. It was just another seeming endless series of wars that occurred in Europe on a regular basis.
Next time, and there will be a next time, I agree with AMF, don't call us, we'll call you when it's over, to see who won this time.
(I read somewhere that Karl Marx stated that Germany would start three wars, the first two they would lose. I may be wrong about Marx, if not, I sure hope Marx was about German.)
"The Four Freedoms are goals famously articulated by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the State of the Union Address he delivered to the United States Congress. In an address also known as the Four Freedoms speech, FDR proposed four points as fundamental freedoms humans "everywhere in the world" ought to enjoy:
Freedom of speech and expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom from want
Freedom from fear "
Quote:
Obama on the other hand seems more likely to present an America that others would emulate by choice rather than under duress.
One of the fundamental discussions that has never taken place in the American public is, "Do we want to be an Empire ?" It's a very interesting question and I don't think I have an answer. I know some that would recoil at the very thought of us as an Empire (some haven't even noticed that we are) and most -- like I suspect most people in the world -- don't care. They just want to be left alone.
Of course, with the events of the last few weeks, the question may be moot.
What possible reason would the US have had for entering it then?
Surely if we had known that some fellow with the handle of Capt.KAOS would be taking us to task for it on an internet bulletin board some 94 years in the future, we would have been there first thing when Jerry was saying "the last man's sleeve should be brushing the English Channel".
The Guns of August, while a bit of a drone to read, does point out that Germany was hell-bent on getting a little respect in 1914, and if it meant rolling through Liege and Paris to do it... well, can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.
One side sees American aggressors marching into places to use armed force in unjustified ways (Viet Nam, Iraq, etc., etcetera).
The other side sees American allies marching into places to use armed force in justified ways but far, far too late (World Wars I and II mostly since we were right on time for Korea), American economic aggression, American cultural aggression, etc., etcetera.
It is all whine, whine, bitch, bitch and I get the simple idea that there are a lot of folks who really, really just do not like America, partly because we had to help them sort out their own messes when we finally got our military sorted out from its peacetime status.
Lindbergh was practically correct and only morally wrong in his isolationist stance towards our entering World War II but that is material for a whole other thread.
I would never think to waste my time trying to induce guilt in such dunderheads as waste their time flipping this two-headed coin to see which reason we have today to dislike America. No, I was just sat there up a side road in the woods looking at a war memorial thinking something like, "What a long way to come to die, and for what?" It is almost the same as when we go to the village cemetery here in Germany and pass many graves unremarked, just a name and dates that put the young man about 20-25 years old and under that, "Missing in Russia".
Here some of you seem to think that choosing a Messiah for President will change this way we send our young people out to fight and die, somehow change the way our human brains are wired for aggression. You want Jesus the Good Shepherd and a flock of sheep for that so that you are bound for disappointment here whoever wins.
I learned it from the Republicans. I thought we'd all moved past that. The last two elections have proved me wrong. 
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