I'm going to give you my opinion on this one, El Grifo. Had he said pearls on a pig, a mink coat on a pig or anything else giving across the same message, there wouldn't have been a problem for the meaning would have been clear.
But politicians are brought up in a brutal school where dirty tricks are an essential part of the armament. When one of them goes wrong I have no sympathy for the sudden appearance of a halo. If it wasn't a direct reference to Palin's hockey mum reference, it was a remarkable coincidence which should have had alarm bells ringing at the possible feedback or even worse a complete lack of political awareness.
It was a very poor piece of political judgment and I for one think Obama has shot himself seriously in the foot. I think he will probably overcome it in the time left, because I don't think Ms Palin can keep her own apparent pending canonisation a feasible destination. There are a lot of dirty shots still to be fired on both sides.
Let's try and be totally honest and devoid of self-delusion.
Fair enough.
Let's try and be totally honest and devoid of deliberate obtuseness.
Coming in the wake of Sarah Palin's self-description of the difference between a "hockey mom" and a pitbull being "lipstick", Obama was ill-served by his advisors to use the "lipstick on a pig" comment.
If he didn't watch her speech, he's a moron (of course he watched it).
If he didn't pick up an obvious connection between the text of his speech and that comment, he's a moron.
If his speechwriters didn't anticipate a backlash from Obama's comment that they wrote within the text of his speech from those who do not deliberately parse each word from a prepared text, but instead rely upon the comment of soundbites (which is the bulk of the electorate), they are morons.
If the goal of the Obama campaign is to win the election, they must win those uncommitted voters in the middle. If they talk down to them or it is PERCEIVED by those voters that they are being talked down to or made out to be fools, those votes will go to the other side. It really is as simple as that.
But Obama's handlers and Obama himself can't seem to get their arms around the fact that their patronizing tone and clever wit are found offensive by those they need the most. But by all means, they can go ahead with this recipe and see if it starts working any better for them. I would venture to guess that it will not.
el, if you haven't seen the video of Obama's presentation, then the words lose their context.
He meant it the way it's being taken. The delivery, as con accurately described it, was meant to be a comparison to Palin with the 'old' zinger also in that appearance directed at McCain.
If that's not good enough for you, well, we'll just have to muddle through without having your good graces.
I actually found it a good political barb.
Think back a few months to when the now Democratic candidate for Vice-President was a candidate for President referred to fellow nomination seeking Barack Obama as "clean and neat."
Any recollection on the outrage generated then as those were 'code' for black as argued by the Obama disciples?
And then candidate Hillary whaling away on Obama for his lack of experience in any elected office or life experiences?
Why cut the quote in half? The full quote was, "” Obama told the crowd. “You can put lipstick on a pig. It’s still a pig....... You can wrap up an old fish in a piece of paper and call it change. It’s still going to stink after eight years."
He gets a dig in at Palin reference the lipstick, and he gets a dig in at McCain reference his age with the change reference.
If you watch the video the crowd gets the reference, and Obama pauses for effect so he obviously gets it. If he didn't he paused in a very strange place by accident. Either that or he didn't understand what his scriptwriter had done; and, you know, I might almost believe that....
"Nothing either of you have written leads me to the conclusion that Obama was "equating Palin to a pig"
Then sadly, El Grifo, you have totally failed to properly understand Obama's speech and subsequent comments, but Hey, you don't want to believe anything good about the Republicans, do you?
Location: not the @r$& end of the earth but can see it from here.
Posts: 324
lipstick on a pig
The lipstick on a pig saying has been around forever.
I think he quite clearly was referring to JM policy.
Those drawing other conclusions just want to do so for their own reasons.
I dont think Obama is quite so silly as to try that on.I'm sure he would regret allowing the Rep's the chance to run with it.So, poorly chosen words yes, I doubt the link being drawn.
With JM at 72 albeit currently healthy I frankly dont fancy a novice running the USA show if he became unfit to be in office.
There is such a strong line of anti DC insiders running the country.It may be a popular calling card but being ignorant of the way DC runs cant be a plus either.Especially if things go pear shaped.
I'm a strong believer in turning administrations over.Although promising a different approach I doubt that unless the Dem's win that can achieved.
The last 8 years have been disastrous for the USA.
I just hope enough Americans care enough about who runs the show and who should take responsibilty for the last 8 years show up in November.
Obama says Palin is a pig.
Steve Cohen (Tennessee Rep, Dem) says Obama is Jesus and Mc Cain Pontius Pilate.
Joe Biden (1942) is an old man.
Better Pontius and a Pig than Jesus and an old man?
Pontius was a diplomat, pigs taste good.
Jesus was crucified and Biden, has had two brain aneuryisms.
AMPCLAMP - If the references to lipstick and a pig are as widely known as you suggest and assuming Obama has been properly briefed by his staff then don't you think that, given Palin's speech, in which she directly made reference to lipstick and an animal, Obama would have been better advised to steer very, very wide of the whole subject and any reference that could in anyway be, how ever tenuously, even vaguely associated with Palin should be avoided? Particularly given that Palin, on her own, has considerably diminished Obama's prospects?
El Grifo - I don't have to make things up, just research your many and varied posts, mosts of which are to the left of centre.
Location: not the @r$& end of the earth but can see it from here.
Posts: 324
EG you maybe the only one who does!
This lipstick crap is so frivilous as to avoid the real issues of the reeking mess the USA economy is in and mess made in Iraq.
......Obama spokesman Dan Pfeiffer said the campaign was not making an issue of the 72-year-old McCain's age, but the time he's spent in Washington. "Our economy wouldn't survive without the Internet, and cyber-security continues to represent one our most serious national security threats," Pfeiffer said. "It's extraordinary that someone who wants to be our president and our commander in chief doesn't know how to send an e-mail."
McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.....
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......Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate's savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. "She's a whiz on the keyboard, and I'm so laborious," McCain admits.
You are dancing in the dark now Ampclamp, frivolous it may be but had Obama said nothing, made no reference to it, then it would have died a natural death, fact is he apparently picked it up and ran with it. That may not be the way the Democratic Party faithful see it but they are not in the majority right now.
Since honesty is the theme of the last few posts parabellum, I feel forced to say that if you had done your research in a more thorough manner, you would have found that all, not most of my posts come from a perspective which could be better described as " far left of center, approaching horizontal "
This lipstick crap is so frivilous as to avoid the real issues of the reeking mess the USA economy is in and mess made in Iraq.
ampclamp, I do wish you would stop putting me in the position of having to agree with parabellum.
The reeking financial mess of the US economy and the horrendous and ongoing ballsup in Iraq (and make no mistake that the two are connected) has diddly squat to do with an amateurish political mistake by someone aspiring to the top job. And that for the moment is what we are discussing.
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