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Old 10th September 2008, 19:19   #2621 (permalink)
 
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GTF

While you are thinking up a reputable political philosophy, here is a little economic lesson. At the end, you might learn a little something. It begins in a warm and pleasant country nicknamed CSA, led by a wonderful Democrat named Jefferson Davis Wallace.

All was well in CSA, when Jeff Davis Wallace took over the Presidency. People cheered him, in his many campaign promises. One problem vexed the land-expensive food. He ordered a commission to research the problem and offer a solution.

They researched and studied. The solution was simple-food being very vital to life, its production could not be left to private farms and purchases left to the people. The study revealed that the average home in CSA spent $200 per month out of their $500 monthly income, in low inflation CSA. So it was decreed that everyone would henceforth have a food card with which they could shop to their heart's content without making choices for the fixed sum of $200. If you cannot see what's coming next, you might be a Democrat......

Into the stores, they went. When faced with the choice of Chateaux Lester Maddox or Chateaux Haut Brion, everyone chose--the Haut Brion. At the meat counter, beef tenderloin was gone long before the pork chops. Mr. Obama's, he was a popular supporter of J.D. Wallace, despite history, his argula sold out, too. When shoppers chose by price, Velveeta, the gourmet food of CSA, was a bestseller; suddenly under the new pricing scheme, imported English Cheddar became instantly popular.

Within days, the country was in political turmoil. The storeowners closed in protest; people protested the government of CSA. So a fix needed doin'

New rules: Everyone would have a "deductible" of $100 dollars per month; wine purchases had co-payments depending on the wine; everyone was assigned a store and could not shop around for better service, better food selection. Everyone bridled but put up with the restrictions.

The parable is obviously about health care; it is a "good", no different than food. Both are vital to life, hell, lack of food will kill you faster than lack of medical care with many diseases. By food habits will kill you; just look at many Americans with diabetes. Our "insurance" regime is really a prepaid medical plan without any connection between the "customer" and the "provider", so we consume too much without thought to it necessity or value. Creating a "single-payer" (read: government; read: NOT in Constitution) plan will do nothing to solve that essential problem. Any individual spends his money on himself and his loved ones better than the government spending other people's money on still other strangers

GF
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Old 10th September 2008, 19:26   #2622 (permalink)
 
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C-P

I'll say this about Euroland-they certainly have money. A quick tour of the Cannes Yacht Show this morning revealed no shortage of multi-million dollar yachts and buyers. Nice, well-upholsterd scenary decorating the boats, also. Then again, the accents in evidence, we not necessarily French. "Da", "Nyet" and "Dobre Dene" aren't French, are they?

Back to the thread....

Lunch £80 for 3. Yikes, we had Coke! The kind from ATL.
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Old 10th September 2008, 19:30   #2623 (permalink)
 
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Lunch £80 for 3. Yikes, we had Coke! The kind from ATL.
So they're using Sterling in Cannes, are they? I gather there's a lot of rubles to be had by squeezing down the westbound gas pipe.

Coca-Cola thread drift. Figure from marketing text... the secret formula for Coke might be tucked away in a vault in ATL, but 80% of the company's revenue comes from other countries... and to think you laughed when they came to you with that bubbly sugar water scheme... said what kind of fool would buy bubbly sugar water?
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Old 10th September 2008, 19:36   #2624 (permalink)
 
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Strategic Blunders and Masterstrokes

There have been two strategic blunders in the campaign so far. Hillary Clinton assumed she was entitled to the nomination and so ran a campaign that assumed she was unopposed, and was (very) narrowly defeated by a first-time candidate. Having won the Democratic nomination, Barack Obama proceeded to run against George W. Bush insted of his actual opponent, John McCain.

If McCain ultimately prevails, I think his selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate will be seen as a strategic masterstroke. In one move he disassociated himself with the Republican establishment by picking a candidate from well outside the Washington Beltway, and drove his opposition into near-incoherent apoplexy.

Regardless of strategies, I expect this election to be very close both in the (meaningless) net popular vote and electorial vote. About one-third each of the electorate in this country is going to vote Republican or Democrat time after time, but its the middle third that decides elections - and no one talks to them prior to election day.


TWB
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Old 10th September 2008, 19:46   #2625 (permalink)
 
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and no one talks to them prior to election day.
Or perhaps they don't talk to anyone... which of course amounts to the same thing... a fine observation, twb3.

It's like the yob or Ugly American/Australian or Rude French Waiter (OK, all French waiters are rude... but work with me)... if you believed what is covered by the media, you might think that's all that exists, but it isn't necessarily a reflection of reality.
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Old 10th September 2008, 20:17   #2626 (permalink)

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we not necessarily French. "Da", "Nyet" and "Dobre Dene" aren't French, are they?
Close, real close.

Mega multi-million Dollar/Pound/Euro yachts are in the same category as the multi-million dollar new corporate aircraft, G-550, Falcon X-7 and you do know the other one.

If you want one and have a fist of million dollar bills, you still will have to wait for over a year to get one. I have a friend that works for a major yacht manufacture in Seattle. They are booked up for the next three years buliding super yachts that have already been paid for, he has been trying to retire but they won't let him. I asked why doesn't he just retire and he replied that they cheat, ever time he puts in for retirement they give him a lot more money to stay. Very unfair.

However, after researching into Obama's tax plan he said that if Obama gets elected he is retiring, taking his money and moving to the Caribbean.
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Old 10th September 2008, 20:41   #2627 (permalink)
 
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Um...lifing

No, Sterling is NOT used in Cannes; but it is in Hampshire, UK. They take every pound one has. We get around at m.80. Breakfast and a yacht show in Cannes, London for lunch and dinner.

TWB3--too true-McCain's selection will be a strategic masterstroke. Esp. cutting BO's wind with the announcment on that Friday. Google OODA loop, if you want to understand McCain.

GF
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Old 10th September 2008, 20:47   #2628 (permalink)
 
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GF-

Quoting John Boyd... you devil.
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Old 10th September 2008, 22:45   #2629 (permalink)
 
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Not a fist full, but I do have a 500 million dollar bill!! Zimbabwe

We are getting serious thread drift here; seems the latest polls have scared off the less committed (should be committed??) Obama types.
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Old 10th September 2008, 23:13   #2630 (permalink)
 
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Read this and tell me the government must be rebuilt or that the current administration has starved the Fed's money. Wall St Journal, BTW

The Spending Explosion
September 10, 2008; Page A14
Here's a prediction: The media will report today that the federal budget deficit is big and getting bigger. What most of them won't report, alas, is that the cause of these deficits is an explosion in federal spending. The era of big government is back, bigger than ever.


The real news in yesterday's Congressional Budget Office semiannual report is that federal expenditures on everything from roads to homeland security to health care will on present trends reach 21.5% of GDP next year. That's a larger share of national output than at anytime since 1992. If the cost of the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac prove to be large and are taken into account, next year federal outlays could be higher as a share of the economy than at anytime since World War II. In this decade alone, federal spending has increased by almost $1.2 trillion, or 57%.

The federal deficit is expected to hit $407 billion for fiscal 2008 (which ends at the end of this month) and $438 billion next year. Still, the deficit is expected to be only 3% of GDP, which is in line with the average of the last 30 years. We hope Congress and the Presidential candidates don't obsess over the deficit per se, because the real fiscal drag from government comes from how much it spends, not how much it borrows.

The Bush tax cuts also aren't the budget problem. Until this year federal tax collections have been surging. In the four years after the 2003 tax cuts become law, tax receipts exploded by $785 billion. This year revenues have declined by 0.8%, but a major reason is the $150 billion bipartisan tax rebate that has hit the Treasury without spurring the economy. Without these nonstimulating rebates, federal tax payments would have climbed another 2.5%, according to CBO. Revenue is expected to be a healthy 18.5% of GDP next year without any tax increase.

Another myth is that the war on terror has busted the budget. While operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are expensive, defense spending is $605 billion this year, or about 4.5% of GDP. That only seems large by comparison to the holiday from history of the 1990s, when defense fell to 3% of GDP. As recently as 1986, defense spending was 6.2% of GDP.

The real runaway train is what CBO calls a "substantial increase in spending" that is "on an unsustainable path." That's for sure. The nearby chart shows how much some federal accounts have expanded since 2001, and in inflation-adjusted dollars. This year alone, federal agencies have lifted their spending by 8.1%, with another 7% raise expected for 2009. There's certainly no recession in Washington. The CBO says that, merely in the two years that Democrats have run Congress, federal expenditures are up $429 billion -- to $3.158 trillion.

The fiscal blowouts have included a record farm bill, notwithstanding record farm income; an aid bill for distressed homeowners, extended unemployment benefits, and more generous veterans benefits. Next up: votes on $50 billion for Detroit auto firms, an $80 billion energy bill, as much as $50 billion for spending masked as a "second stimulus," plus $100 billion or more for the Fannie and Freddie rescue. Rather than sort through priorities, Congress is spending more on just about everything.

Meanwhile, remember that "pay as you go" spending promise that Speaker Nancy Pelosi made in 2006? We called it a ruse at the time, and the last two years have proved it. Senator Judd Gregg (R., N.H.) has tallied up at least $398 billion in "paygo" violations so far. Earmarks were also supposed to be cut in half by this Congress. In 2008 there were some 11,000 at a cost of $17 billion, the second most ever, and far more than half the peak of 14,000 in 2006.

The point to keep in mind is that this big spending blitz is coming even before a new President and Congress arrive next year with far more spending promises in tow. As they contemplate their choice for President, voters might want to consider which of the candidates is likely to be a check on Congressional appetites, rather than a facilitator.

Comments anyone?
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Old 11th September 2008, 03:29   #2631 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
The parable is obviously about health care; it is a "good", no different than food.
One huge difference - food requirements are predictable and fairly uniform - i.e. we all need a couple of thousand calories per day. Consequently, nobody is going to sell you food insurance in case you might need to eat tomorrow.

Health care requirements are extremely variable and unpredictable. Some people might be able to go 50 years without needing to see a doctor - while others might get cancer as a young adult which could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat. One woman might give birth to a healthy baby - while another might have a baby which requires hugely expensive treatment early in life.

Consequently we need insurance of some sort (private or public) - to distribute the cost.
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Old 11th September 2008, 11:20   #2632 (permalink)
 
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stagger:

Variability of demand is irrelevant. There are functioning markets for all kinds of things with varying demands. My point was that when there is no relationship between the buyer and the seller (or in the current regime, a fixed cost of entry, the premium) buyers buy the goods inefficiently. Insurance is a financial product designed to spread risk among many. Right now, the US scheme is more like a fixed cost medical plan in which the buyer can use as much of the good, medical care, with little factoring of the cost. Similarily, the sellers, medicine, due to mostly malpractice concerns, over-sell the product. The essential problem with exploding care costs is that lack of a financial relationship that holds the buyer and seller to seek the best medicine. It is all "other people's money" My doctor recently proscribed a test, that was expensive, a bit painful and, after doing some research, completely unnecessary. I passed on it. Why did that happen. He thought the "insurance" would cover it; I have an HSA and would have wiped out my account paying for it. Economics work, everywhere. Just ask a Russian veteran of Communism.

Would you rather have the NHS or a plan that you could control? I hear the waits for care there are rather long, as it is in Canada. Loads of Canadians come to America to get care they cannot get home. I rather get my food and my health care through private arrangements that compete for MY money.

Planes have very varying purchase demands, but Boeing and Airbus seem to work.

GF
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Old 11th September 2008, 13:10   #2633 (permalink)
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So he's insulting 72 year old McCain as an "old fish" that stinks and Palin as a "pig with lipstick".
Sometimes the truth hurts. Seriously, McCain is in trouble if he uses this in his campaign.

Anyways, now about sex, lies and videotapes...

Does the Truth matter anymore?

Does it?

Basically it says what I said before, I liked McCain back in 2000. Today he's just another dirty Bush/Rove clone.
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Old 12th September 2008, 11:54   #2634 (permalink)
 
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Well for some of us here in the USA its Mcain and Palin.
Tired of hearing the Obama/ Clinton lies.
And yes most of us are not happy with Bush either.
But Mcain has a track record and experience, Palin the same.
Obama has what just 153 days in this area?
Doubt Obama will ever see being president.
Just as I said months ago that Billary would fail.
What a low life idiot she was.
The lipstick on a pig thing backfired on him
Sarah Palin has a proven track record.
Obamas wife, now even lipstick could not improve that one!!!!
A pig would be a big improvement!
Maybe when this pig Obama's wife said that for the for the first time I am proud of my country.
Or here Piglet Husband standing with the National Athem being played not placing his hand over his heart!!!
Commander in chief i think not.
McCain with his military experience, Palins sons in Iraq.
Obama, what does he have to offer, just normal bullcrap from his kind.
Surprised he did not name jessie jackson as his running mate.
Racist, no you can bullshit a bull shitter but cannot snow the snowman!

Last edited by Earl : 12th September 2008 at 12:10.
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Old 12th September 2008, 12:07   #2635 (permalink)
 
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Loved the Obama toss of the wreath at the 9/11 memorial, not. And I'm not even a Yank!!!
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Old 12th September 2008, 14:02   #2636 (permalink)
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Loved the Obama toss of the wreath at the 9/11 memorial, not. And I'm not even a Yank!!!
Hmm, I got that too. It was one of those "if you have to ask, you'll never know" moments; you can almost hear BO asking his advisors what to do with the floral tribute, and them saying, "Well, you add it to the other offerings," or similar...so he awkwardly chucks it on the pile.

JMcC, on the other hand, knows inherently and instinctively that he must, and how to, honour the fallen; so he does, with respect, which showed through.

It was a bit like JMcC's comment regarding his greatest regret, and he said it was the failure of his first marriage; you know, I forget what Obama said in reply to the same question. Something shallow and irrelevant, like him. It didn't gel, and thus it didn't make any real impression, and hence I can't remember what it was. McCain, on the other hand, demonstrated his maturity and depth of experience by making reference to a human thing and a universal thing and a real thing, and isn't real human experience and life and expectation what this whole governance thing should be all about?
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:54   #2637 (permalink)

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BHO's reply to that question was to blame society for being racist. He did not take personal responsibility for having ever had a failure. T w a t.

Ozzy
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Old 12th September 2008, 16:36   #2638 (permalink)

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But the trend/momentum is toward McCain, and I'm comfortable with the bet. Can I bring some friends in on the action?
You most certainly can, BenThere. I will accept all bets up to a maximum of $10,000 Australian under the same conditions you and I have agreed on, with one extra caveat. You must be responsible for the honesty and integrity of the bettors and guarantee their payment.

Bring it on!

Come on ORAC. You know you want to!
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Old 12th September 2008, 18:34   #2639 (permalink)
 
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Earl

Or as a friend used to say, "you can bullshit the fans, but you can't bullshit the players." Baseball.

GF
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Old 13th September 2008, 01:01   #2640 (permalink)

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Obamas wife, now even lipstick could not improve that one!!!!
A pig would be a big improvement!
Maybe when this pig Obama's wife said that for the for the first time I am proud of my country.
Or here Piglet Husband standing with the National Athem being played not placing his hand over his heart!!!
What a stirring patriotic post. Apparently every concept in Earl's world is reducible to one line. I'm glad to see that most conservatives are too embarrassed to bother supporting his towering intellect. This guy belongs with Capt. Ed/ I.M. Esperto as a finalist in the most offensive poster ever on PPRuNe. Where are the mods when you need them?
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