Don Did I miss you addressing the personal accountability of the controllers striking despite agreeing not to as a condition of employment?
I signed the same piece of paper, no doubt to me what it meant.
Nope. You didn't miss anything.
American presidential elections
I only go as far afield as I choose to. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread to rehash the subject. I'm retired but there are still only so many hours in the day.
How about you guys go find yer own forum to bitch about ATC issues? Oh, you already have them. So why bother us with it?
Hmmm...
Its an Aviation forum;
The USA has the busiest aiports in the world by far when it comes to 'tin';
I've seen the some of the radars, software and conditions they work under, its bordering on third world and technology that is at least a generation old;
The USA's controllers are 1st class (I've worked with ex-PATCOs fired by Raygun) and have real pride in the service they provide, and their skills save airlines zillions;
The FAA also provides Flight Planning, Navaids, Charts, Documents etc etc to everyone from the 777 driver to the C152 PPL (the FAA's third world flight planning computer glitch caused how much delay last week?);
See point 1 above.
Its all been allowed to rot. McGoo has no policy or thoughts on the matter
PS Don is a truck driving, deer shooting, boot wearing, country boy who has worked at one of the busiest centres in the world (if not THE busiest)in a city with the worlds busiest aiport by a country mile.
Oh, and see point 1 above and remember McGoo has no policy or thoughts on the matter.
Last edited by Track Coastal : 1st September 2008 at 13:31.
Somehow I thought this thread was about a reasonable discusion of the US presidential election.
I assume you would like to make a contribution -- which would be... ?
Here, let me help you get the thread back on track.
Stealing a play from the John Stewart...let me begin by quoting myself;
"You seem to think that I don't like Senator McCain. You are mistaken. I do. I'm tickled pink by his nomination. From all indications, he's a good and honorable man."
That is something you will never hear the Republican party utter about Senator Obama -- he's a good and honorable man. Yet Bill Clinton, Joe Biden and John Kerry all said words to that effect about John McCain when they addressed the Democratic Convention.
To carry the point a little farther, you can read this blog entry from Robert Reich;
The Republican Party has perfected the politics of hate (and fear) while hiding behind a religion that professes to be a religion of love. The Good Book says to love thy neighbor. I see no asterisk that says, "*(unless they are black, gay, liberal or whatever the boogie man of the year is.)"
John McCain has been a victim of that very same "the ends justify the means" hatred. What the Bush campaign did to him in South Carolina was despicable. It was wrong. It was evil. He's knows it, you know it and I know it. He now has a chance to change it ( and I believe he would like to change it) but will he ? All signs are that he will not. And just like that popular picture of him hugging George W. Bush depicts -- he seems to be embracing it.
He is by all accounts a good and honourable man. He just has faceless puppeteers holding the strings (look at the Sarah Palin appointment for god's sake).
He's met her only once before but he'll do as he's told.
McCain is a former pilot where Obama is just the Messiah. Between the two I think McCain is more likely to make a sound decision about what the ATC system might need if it came to his attention. In either case it's unfortunately sure to be a political decision. That is the thing about politicians, you see, those are the sort of decisions they make!
Reagan, ah! I remember that period leading up to and just after the strike. PATCO was hell-bent on confrontation and were showing plenty of "attitude". (When you saw someone's bumper sticker saying "Controllers tell Pilots Where to Go," that about said it all. "I told him where to go," means that I told him to go to Hell, for those of you who do not speak American.)
The logic was that to fire all those controllers would cause massive disruption. What that logic missed was that the fired controllers would get the blame while Reagan would get the credit for standing up to a stroppy union! What he did, in political terms, was brilliant! Given that he was usiing Air Force One, did he have a problem with that?
On the other hand, just before the strike I used to be able to buzz around picking up IFR clearances as and when needed. Just after the strike I landed someplace to be told that I was Number 3 for an IFR departure on a day when the birds were walking, out at East Podunk Municipal. "Okay, that's not too bad, Number 3... So how much of a delay will that be then?"
"We are running one IFR departure per hour so figure on about three hours." Thank you so very goddam much, PATCO and Ronald Reagan!
Lots of folks get all upset and disappointed when they take some lying political promise at face value. DeGaulle told the Froggies who wanted to hang onto Algeria that he had heard them, which they took to mean that he agreed with them when those are two different things! Nixon promised us that he was not a crook and Clinton promised that he had not had sex with that woman. GWB promised us... what? Something about WMD, I think it was but I forget the details.
Most disappointed in this one would be the saps who seem to think that Obama is not really a politician. I don't think it should matter, given that he's going to lose the election but if he does get in then there are going to be very many, very unhappy muppets back home.
The Republican Party has perfected the politics of hate (and fear) ...
I guess you forget how the name "Bork" turned into the verb "to Bork", the Clarence Thomas high tech lynching, and the award-winning polemic Fahrenheit 911. And don't forget the latest Oliver Stone screed, coming just in time for the elections. I'm sure that will be a fair and balanced documentary.
No, I just can't accept that somehow the Republicans introduced hate into politics. It has always been rough and tumble, just more so with George Soros and his millions backing the mobs....
Quote:
From all indications, he's a good and honorable man."
Can't remember too many democrats saying Bush, Reagan, etc. were good and honorable men. Pretty easy to say McCain is good and honorable, then unleash the attach dogs at NY Times to put unsubstantiated, classless allegations of extramarital affairs on the front page... (while ignoring John Edwards indiscretions of course)...
He just has faceless puppeteers holding the strings (look at the Sarah Palin appointment for god's sake).
He's met her only once before but he'll do as he's told.
Aaaaaannd we're done.
Who are these faceless puppeteers and how does one get to be one? How do you know they exist? Where do they come from? How do they maintain their anonymity? How do, apparently, only GOP candidates meet them? Where is their secret Bond-like lair? Is that where all the long-haired white pussycats have gone? Is airship really one of them?
Location: FR | IC luftballons | Page 20 - photo thread: there be PPRuNe's most beautiful woman...
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I second whoever attempted to reiterate that this thread was about the American Presidential elections and not ATC - (if you post in that forum, your post count goes up, here it remains the same)...
May I suggest that either of the current Presidential candidates might gain some brownie points by trying to follow in the footsteps of Putin here...?! I'm somewhat dubious that President Putin's shot with the tranquiliser dart really did save any lives that might have been endangered by the already endangered Siberian tiger (tranquilisers usually take at least a few minutes to work after all)... But if you listen to the translation in the video, he does thank the International efforts, including those of the USA and UK, made to save the Siberian tigers in Russia, beginning when Russia itself was in such a mess (unlike today) that it was incapable of looking after its' own endangered wildlife. Putin likes pudicats...a man after me own heart, what more can I say?!
I'm not sure where or how the Republican vice-Presidential nominee finds the time for hunting and fishing (both favourite hobbies apparently) according to the news reports. What with raising 5 children, running the state of Alaska, fighting against the entrenched corruption to be found up there and all. Together with all those long late-night rows with her hubby who works in the oil business and won't come round to her own ideas of safeguarding nature in Alaska for future generations instead of drilling for oil until it pours out of every kitchen sink overflow in Anchorage.
Oh well, that's the beauty about American politics. It's all very entertaining whilst it lasts. Sort of like a hugely-entertaining sitcom which is only allowed to go on for a year or so. Then you're left with the reruns and about 4 years of the cold, often hard results...
Together with all those long late-night rows with her hubby who works in the oil business and won't come round to her own ideas of safeguarding nature in Alaska for future generations instead of drilling for oil until it pours out of every kitchen sink overflow in Anchorage.
Just can't help throwing in the insults and the snide accusations. Looks to me like he's working man trying to raise a family. In fact, exactly the type of blue collar worker the Democrats profess to represent.
Todd Palin: Palin is a union member belonging to the United Steel, Paper and Forestry, Rubber, Manufacturing, Energy, Allied Industrial and Service Workers International Union (United Steelworkers). For 18 years, he worked for BP Oil in the North Slope oil fields of Alaska. In 2007, in order to avoid a conflict of interest, he took a leave from his job as production supervisor when his employer became involved in natural gas pipeline negotiations with his wife's administration. Seven months later, because the family needed more income, Todd returned to BP, and, again order to avoid potential conflict of interest, he accepted a non-management position as a production operator. He is also a commercial salmon fisherman at Bristol Bay on the Nushugak River. Financial statements filed in 2007 state that Palin earned $46,000 from his fishing business and $46,790 from BP.....
As First Gentleman, Palin has encouraged young Alaskans who cannot afford college to consider jobs in the oil and gas industry as an effective training ground and has advised the Governor on workforce development issues for the natural gas pipeline she supports. He is a community volunteer working in youth sports, coaching hockey and basketball. He first registered to vote in 1989, the year after he married Sarah Palin, and has never declared a political party affiliation.
Governor Palin refers to him as the "First Dude".
In 2008, while defending the Tesoro Iron Dog Championship, he was injured and broke his arm when he was thrown 70 feet from his machine. He was sent to the hospital but managed to finish in fourth place.[15] This race is the world's longest snowmobile race which traces the path of the Iditarod race with an extra journey of several hundred miles to Fairbanks added. He first competed in the race in 1993 and has been the champion four times......
Don't let me poison your mind about it. I'm just learning about it myself. But one female's name pops up that might surprise you.
Well, it's on wikipedia. That's enough for me then.
It also has been edited numerous times since Palin's introduction to the public.
I'm sure that's merely a coincidence.
It writes of a Christian - therefore right wing, sometimes too far so - organization, so therefore it's suspect.
I would not have thought that the rulers of America, thus the world, were good, God-fearing men (and women - which, of course, goes against the real Christians who believe woman is to serve man).
Who knew?
I would have never have guessed that politics - the eternally entertaining, yet rough and tumble game that it is - was really a cover for the few - the illuminati, the Star Chamber, the plutocracy, et al - and not open to the relative masses.
Who says PPRuNe isn't educational?
But wait, if I've been allowed to see 'the man behind the curtain,' doesn't that imply that 'the man' isn't all-powerful?
Or is that, too, one of his tactics - to let the unwashed think they've discovered the secret only to be still in the dark? A wheels within wheels scenario?
Can't remember too many democrats saying Bush, Reagan, etc. were good and honorable men.
Really ? I seem to remember a group defined as Reagan Democrats. Since the price of Reagan's policies has become clearer, the charm has worn off.
As to Bush Jr., you probably have a point. I don't believe is good or honorable and you'd probably have a hard time finding a Democrat that thought he was. But with the evidence available -- Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, extrodinary renditions, sleazy campaing tactics, illegal wire-tapping, suspension of habeas corpus (I'm tired from just typeing it all) -- you have to wonder why anybody (including Republicans) would think he is.
BTW, I still think his Dad was a pretty decent guy. We'll see if history allows me to keep that impression.
Who are these faceless puppeteers and how does one get to be one?
It's not accurate to call these people "faceless" when in fact all they lack is real accountability. For 6 years the country ran the way it did under Karl Rove, the only problem was that nobody elected him. But you see, whether it's Rove and Libby et al, it makes no difference, because you can bet your bottom dollar that the "POTUS in waiting" for the Democrats is all lined up and ready to go, it just takes longer to figure out who will hold the real power there. Could be a toss up between the Clintons and the Auto Workers, or maybe it's the Baldwin brothers?
I'm not sure which is worse - having your Government secretly run by power mad profiteers or loony left wing socialists, but in November we'll get one or the other.
It also has been edited numerous times since Palin's introduction to the public.
Interesting. I didn't see Palin's name on there. I was referring to;
There is no official membership of the group. Most members of Congress who participate are from the Republican Party but some Democrats such as Hillary Clinton (Doug Coe is a pastor/ advisor for Clinton participate as well.
Hmmm...now that I'm on the page to find the quote about Hillary, I can't find Palin's name.
I guess that means you didn't check the sources listed either.
Joshua Green, Take Two: How Hillary Clinton turned herself into the consummate Washington player The Atlantic Monthly, November 2006
a b c d e f g h i j k l Doug Ireland, Hillary, l’Amérique, et l’intégrisme chrétien, Bakchich, 13 April 2008 (account of Jeff Sharlet, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, HarperCollins, 2008) (French)
Lisa Getter, "Showing Faith in Discretion", Los Angeles Times, September 27, 2002
a b c Jeffrey Sharlet, "Jesus Plus Nothing", "Harper's Magazine", March, 2003
GuideStar - Grant Explorer - Report Page - THREE SWALLOWS FOUNDATION
Anthony Lappé, "Meet 'The Family'", Guerrilla News Network, June 13, 2003
Lara Jakes Jordan, "Fellowship finances townhouse where 6 congressmen live", Associated Press, April 20, 2003
Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics Mother Jones (1 September 2007)
Joshua Green "Take Two: Hillary's Choice The Atlantic (November 2006)
"Transcript: Bono remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast", USA Today (2006-02-02). Retrieved on 2008-03-22.
Frommer, Frederic (2008-02-06). "Minnesotan to deliver keynote speech at National Prayer Breakfast", Star-Tribune. Retrieved on 2008-03-22.
Oh well. Perhaps there was some confusion somehwere. It's not like you said McCain went to West Point or anything. Nice rant about conspiracies though.
s to Bush Jr., you probably have a point. I don't believe is good or honorable and you'd probably have a hard time finding a Democrat that thought he was.
Whether you agree with them or not isn't really the point - just that it only took a look at today's Independent to find one....
But if you listen to the translation in the video, he does thank the International efforts, including those of the USA and UK, made to save the Siberian tigers in Russia, beginning when Russia itself was in such a mess (unlike today) that it was incapable of looking after its' own endangered wildlife. Putin likes pudicats...a man after me own heart, what more can I say?! 
Nice rant about conspiracies though.
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