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Old 30th Nov 2005, 11:06   #1 (permalink)

Evertonian
 
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Can-o-worms: Males seated next to UM's

Airlines risk claims for ban stereotyping men
By Andrew Clark
November 30, 2005

AUSTRALIA'S leading airlines could be vulnerable to claims of discrimination against men because of a controversial policy of banning men from sitting next to unaccompanied children on aircraft.

Experts in equality law yesterday criticised Qantas, Virgin Blue and other carriers including Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines and United Airlines for stereotyping men as a potential danger to youngsters.

The practice of separating men from lone children came to light after a complaint from a New Zealander, Mark Worsley, who says he felt "extremely humiliated" when a Qantas flight attendant told him to swap seats with a woman after take-off on a flight between Christchurch and Auckland.

Mr Worsley, 37, a shipping manager and father of two-year-old twins, had been allocated a seat next to a boy aged about eight. He was forced to change places with a woman who was reluctant to move because she was travelling with her husband.

"Nobody wants to be pointed out as a possible pedophile," he said. "It was humiliating. In the beginning, I was embarrassed; later on, I was angry."

The president of the NSW anti-discrimination board, Stepan Kerkyasharian, said that on face value, the policy could be open to a legal challenge.

"If this had happened in NSW, I would think there would be a case for him to take it up with the anti-discrimination board," Mr Kerkyasharian said.

Under federal law, sex discrimination is illegal in the provision of goods and services.

Beth Gaze, a discrimination expert at Melbourne University's law school, said exemptions applied in only a few circumstances, such as residential care for children.

"There is a problem in where we draw the line in using stereotypes for predictive risk minimisation," Ms Gaze said.

Mr Worsley said he was initially told by Qantas staff that the policy was mandatory under New Zealand's civil aviation regulations.

But when he raised it with the country's authorities, they said it was nothing to do with them.

Qantas said yesterday its procedures "reflect parents' concerns and the need to maximise children's safety".

The airline said that wherever possible unaccompanied children were placed near crew areas or alongside an empty seat. On full flights, they are put next to women. Other airlines said they had similar guidelines.

A Cathay Pacific spokesman said the airline felt females tended to "relate more to young kids".



Now, in my day...we used to ensure that this didn't happen when we edited the flight (INTL). It was an "unwritten" rule that we never sat males next to UM's. I don't know if it was specifically to avoid the sort of embarrassment that this chap went through, but it certainly provided peace of mind to the UM's family.

Ansett used to have a facility whereby parents of UM's could pay a one way fare to have aFA sit next to the child for the entire flight. I'm sure this wasn't a unique policy, but when crewing such an instance, we always had to select female crew...male only as a last resort!

The handling of this case is pretty poor IMHO. It should never have gotten to that late stage. I feel he has a right to be aggrieved. As a society, we tend to think the worst of men who show affection to children not their own...especially if you don't know what the relationship is. This type of action reinforces that view.

The way I see it, Airlines must feel that by sitting a female next to a UM, they are minimising their risk. Does this mean that the crew can reduce their diligence? Would the responsible FA pay more or less attention depending on the passenger next to the UM?

So, is it PC madness eroding our outlook on society? Does the "ends' justify the "means"? Should we ban UM's altogether?



Buster Hyman is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2005, 11:42   #2 (permalink)
 
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No, don't ban UMs. Just gag and restrain them

Seriously though, I wouldn't particularly fancy sending my daughter off on a UM trip. If she really, really, needed to travel and myself, the mother or other close family was unavailable to go with her, then for peace of mind I'd cough up the necessary funds for a FA to ride shotgun with her. Whether that FA was male or female wouldn't matter to me; the chances the (male) FA would be a phedophile are remote (and all male FAs are gay anyway, right ), or that a FA on such a ticket would even dream of engaging in child molesting actitivites on the job.

I therefore find it reasonable that UMs should not exist - they should be accompanied in one capacity or the other. If that, to some, is cost prohibitive, well then the travelling is obviously not important enough, and there'll be one less screaming ankle biter to ruin the flight.
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 11:48   #3 (permalink)
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Not the only place men face discrimination
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 12:00   #4 (permalink)

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I'd be happy to pay a one way fare to have a (young lady) FA sit next to me



...economy class of course
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 12:03   #5 (permalink)

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Quote:
the chances the (male) FA would be a phedophile are remote
Wots a phedophile?

The chances of a random member of the male public being a paedophile is equally remote but let's not allow commonsense to interfere with the moral outrage and mass hysteria currently so popular over an issue which has been around since time immemorial but has only recently become so fashionable.

In a similar vein I have had to laugh recently when several, admittedly stupid, young women teachers have been found guilty and punished for seducing young male adolescents in their charge. The cases have been in the UK.

When I was at school we lads used to fantasise about that very thing happening. To claim it has harmed the poor lads is laughable, more likely increased their street cred by a factor of ten or more!
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 18:37   #6 (permalink)
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I reckon all UMs (Unaccompanied Males) on any flight should get the personal attention of someone like falps... I wonder how most of them (not the afore-mentionned) would get along with a Rugby XI though...
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 18:44   #7 (permalink)
 
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Rugby XI?

One is confuzzled.....
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 18:56   #8 (permalink)
Uneasy Pleistocene Leftover
 
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Whoops...XV?! (But 11 of 'em would have been more than enough...)
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 19:10   #9 (permalink)
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Are there NO lesbian FAs? I would doubt this as statistics presumably apply to cabin crew (albeit slanted by the 'male' FAs). In which case, would you want your daughter sitting next to a LESBIAN FA? Or would the Airline 'avoid' such a situation? Do personnel records identify the sexuality of their staff?

I recall an all-male business lunch some years ago when the subject strayed onto lesbiansim (as it does). The Senior Manager from the biggest electrical and brake supplier (employing many thousands of people) floored us all by confiding that there was 'at least one' working for their company . . .
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 19:17   #10 (permalink)
Uneasy Pleistocene Leftover
 
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Did that confidence bring the conversation to a screeching halt, or did sparks fly afterwards...?!
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 00:12   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Qantas said yesterday its procedures "reflect parents' concerns and the need to maximise children's safety".
or the concerned parents could fly with them....
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 00:27   #12 (permalink)

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Look, we all know we'd love the fun of corrupting minors. NO! Not that. Just the idea that they'd challenge their dads to a game of Texas Hold'em as soon as they got home ...

P.S. I am against the idea of UMs except in extremely unusual cases. If you can't look after your own damned kids, why did you have them?
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 00:53   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I am against the idea of UMs except in extremely unusual cases. If you can't look after your own damned kids, why did you have them?
It's called the domestic purposes benefit.
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 02:26   #14 (permalink)
 
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Was seated in the row in front of 3 sweet ladies aged 7 to 11 YHM-YQT-YYC on their way to the grandparents for the Summer. They talked my ears off showing me their various dolls and special toys for the trip and brought me up to speed on their grandparents' various medical complaints as well as complete biographies of Mum and Dad. It was a refreshing change from my teenage boys at the time.

The staff kept an unobtrusive eye as they should.

Saw to it that they got cockpit visits (pre-9/11) and called for cleanup for a minor soft drink spill.

If it does come to an evacuation, an adjacent male is a good deal more able to grab the kid(s) and make sure they get off than FAs some rows away.
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 03:30   #15 (permalink)
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Lightbulb

Quote:
I am against the idea of UMs except in extremely unusual cases. If you can't look after your own damned kids, why did you have them?
Never faced the realities of expatriate life and boarding schools I take it? Or are boarding schools "extremely unusual? Tens of thousands of expatriates are stuck with the logistics of the tri-annual school holiday rush as a sad but extremely usual part of their lives. Those school holiday rushes are a major contributor to airline revenues too and we're all presumably pro-aviation on this BB, aren't we?

Our eldest two girls flew hundreds of thousands of miles as UMs - 48,000 miles per year, for six years, or just over a quarter of a million miles each, knocking up 324 flight hours while doing so. At the UK end, we paid an escort agency - for want of a better description - to escort the girls between their school and Heathrow - a cheaper and more practical option than having one parent buy three long-haul round trips annually, to escort them personally.

"Universal Aunts" were mostly a bunch of no-nonsense retired BOAC, BEA and BU Cabin Crew who knew airline travel inside-out and their service was legendary. They didn't fly with the children though - their responsibilities ended once the girls were either checked in or handed back to their teachers. The children were taken over by specially assigned ground staff and, once on board, the ever so hard worked Cabin Crew. We never had the chance to thank them personally, but remain eternally grateful to all those to whom our children were entrusted on their frequent journies.
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 06:01   #16 (permalink)
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Sent my two kids (7 & 9 at the time) to Perth from Sydney as I was moving there. I thought it would be better for the Kids (and Me) if they spent 6 Hrs in a plane and were met by their Grand Parents than 5 Days in the car. They arrived happy and unconcerned at the other end with colouring (note the correct spelling by the way) books and other goodies in hand.
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 06:19   #17 (permalink)

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I guess it boils down to necessity & the UM's maturity.

I've escorted, to the aircraft, many UM's. Some were embarrassed to be escorted and others were quite happy to toddle along. What used to upset me though, were the little kids that were shit scared of what was happening. They didn't want to leave Mum or Dad, they didn't like the look of this bloke who they were told they had to stay with & eventually, when they'd started to get used to you, they were again ditched to some foreign FA!

I can still remember a very sad little girl that I took through once. Broke my heart to see how sad & scared she was. I vowed that I would never do such a thing. I often wondered though, if the parents could actually have seen her in that state, whether they'd opt for a different way. Again, each case on its own merit...
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 06:39   #18 (permalink)
 
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I take it Australia has never heard of Rose West or Myra Hindley then?
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 07:01   #19 (permalink)

'nough said
 
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sat next to two UMs on BA FRA-LHR many moons ago - 2 girls aged probably 7 and 10. Never had so much fun on a plane - they roped me into their games with the packs they received - considering the flight was full of suits it was refreshing for a journey that is normally very tedious on a Friday evening. Was surprised at the time that they were flying on to CPT but they were enjoying the experience and were acting in a very mature way (probably were gold execs too ) Don't see why males next to UMs should be an issue, don't women commit crimes?
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Old 6th Dec 2005, 07:10   #20 (permalink)
 
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How times change. In the late 60's, as a F/O aged 22 working for a major British long haul airline, I was paxing from SYD to SIN on QF. I was in the last row of economy sitting next to a 12yr old female UM. The cabin crew were one member short and asked me if I would act as escort to the UM in the transit lounge at the Bali stop. No problem, great kid, but I wouldn't do it now.
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