Why is Tony Blair even contemplating handing back our 3 Billion of hard earned cash so that the French can live in the manner to which they have become accustomed? Why don't we do what the rest of the EU would do and tell 'em its non negotiable?
well acording to the news thats exactly what our Tone did do, he told Chirac to go piss up his kilt, apparently the French pay next to nowt into the eu and every Frenchman with a plant pot on his widow sill is classed as a farmer and is entitled to a subsidy under the CAP.
Our dear Draper is, yet again, sprouting his ill-informed and highly inaccurate BS. Hey, I personally don't blame him - when an individual is obviously biased and only recives news from those beacons of fair and balanced reporting otherwise known as "The Uk Tabloids", the idiotic statements are fully understood.
1: Germany (22.2) 2: France (17.3) 3: Italy (14.4) 4: UK (13.7) 5: Spain (10.0)
This is, of course, not the full picture - one has to take into account the aid each indivdual nation receives back. I haven't been able to locate a webbie which lists net contributions, but seem to remember that Germany and Holland are leading the pack, with both France and the UK (among others) also being net contributors.
But hey, Tony, never let facts get in the way of your preconceptions!
Flip flop, the aid is precisely what is important. I have no idea of the veracity of the figures but the BBC news the other night talked of the following after subsidy:
Germany £7bn France £1bn UK £5bn which is reduced to £2bn after the rebate.
The CAP us heavily skewed towards the French as shown by these figures if correct.
I don't support Tony much but the argument of the only way the rebate is negotiable is if the CAP is negotiable is the right one.
According to the BBC, UK pays 5 billion quid and gets three billion back, France pays 3 billion quid and gets 2 billion back in farming susbsidies. Tell yer what, we will give that 3 bill to Africa if France does the same with its agricultural subsidies. Chirac is a gone gossling franticly thrashing about trying to pass the buck because his countrymen told him to **** off, tee hee I am loving it.
Indeed, the CAP is sick. However, the reason France gains more than, say England, is because it has a much larger agricultural sector.
Now, if we eliminate the CAP and tell the combined EU farmers that they'll have to sell at whatever price they can get, one of two things will happen. If we raise the tariffs for imported agricultural products (don't think the WTO will like that) then prices will raise dramatically, as the farmers will have to raise their prices considerably to meet costs and generate a profit - and they can do so as long as they are marginally cheaper than the imported, and tariffed, goods.
If we remove the tariffs, and discontinue the CAP, well, imported agricultural products will be the order of the day. But that will never fly, since almost all other major agricultural producing nations have some sort of subsidy program for their farmers - thus buying subsidies products from a foreign nation will only serve to kill our local agricultural business and keeping the, subsidised, business going in foreign countries.
The thing is, though, that the EU farmers represent a significant electorate. And we all know that the most important aim for most politicians is to get reelected. Alas, any politician advocating a discontinuation of the CAP will almost certainly loose the farmers votes and thus greatly reduce his or her chances of getting re-elected.
One will also have to take into consideration the effect of removing the CAP, namely mass unemployment in the agro sector. A cost/benefit analysis will therefore have to be made, showing the gains of removing the CAP vs. the reduced tax income and increased social costs for the uempolyed farmers. It is hardly as if France and Germany, in particular, is presently in a position where they can easily absorb additional unemployment.
Ireland last year received the most EU funding per person, while the Netherlands paid in the most per capita, according to a report unveiled by the European Commission.
Four countries - Ireland, Portugal, Greece and Spain - were revealed to receive more money from the EU pot than they pay in.
Each Irish citizen received just under 400 euro last year from EU funds.
At the other end of the scale, Dutch citizens each paid in 120 euro to the EU coffers.
Other net contributors were Sweden (106 euro per citizen), Germany (93 euro), Belgium (75 euro) and the UK (46.5 euro). The French pay 32 euro each.
Presenting the figures, budgetary commissioner Michaele Schreyer said that, whether a member state was a net contributor or a net recipient of EU funds, everyone gains in the end from EU membership.
"For net contributors also, the economic and political benefits from belonging to the internal market, the currency union and the European peace framework far outweigh the net payments to the EU budget", she said. (yeah right)
"EU membership is the best conceivable investment", she concluded.(yeah right, for countries like Latvia, Poland et all, how much is one prepared to pay for solidarity, with the current recession...)
Dunno where he gets the peace thingy from, the Monrovia Peoples Liberation Front could walk into Europe tomorrow and take the place,yer soldiers been peace keeping and handing out red cross parcels for that long they forgot how to kick arse.
I am sure you are right in your analysis of consequences of removing the CAP.
I think it is merely being proposed that if we renegotiate the rebate, then the CAP should be renegotiated for something fairer to all, or lets say less advantageous to France, rather than removal of CAP.
Clearly the way contributions and subsidy work are no longer approriate for such an expanded EU and the whole budget arrangement needs to be reworked with fairness in mind.
Why not "modify" the rules so that the CAP doesn't come from EU funds. If the French wish to subsidise their way of life, they can do it from French funds. Then EU funds can be spent on pan European schemes such as decent transport sysyems and upgrading essential infrastructure.
I suppose that when that New Bl@@dy Labour lot says that the rebate is "not negotiable", On can expect the opposite to apply. Didn't take long, did it?
"Tony Blair today hinted that some form of compromise over Britain's unique £3bn EU rebate could be "open to debate" - but only if the entire EU budget, including the controversial common agricultural policy, was up for renegotiation."
"Forty percent of the [EU] budget goes on CAP [the common agricultural policy] - which has 5% of the population and less than 2% of the output of the EU." (Guess who has the biggest agricultural industry in Europe?")
"However, Mr Chirac and the German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder have already said that significant changes in the CAP are not on the table for the upcoming 2007-2013 budget."
Location: Back in the land of the singing aardvarks looking for the escape hatch.....
Age: 42
Posts: 1,212
Why don't we just keep all our cash and block up the chunnel. B ll cks to them all!
Or, we could claim back all our EU funding and claim it's going to pay for all the illegals the froggies send our way, that'd have Happy Jacques choking on his pate de foie gras!
Our dear Draper is, yet again, sprouting his ill-informed and highly inaccurate BS.
I think you'll find his comments are very accurate. Without the rebate Britain would have paid x15 more than France into the hugely ineffecient EU pocket.
Why should I, as an Englishman pay for motorways in Ireland or Spain to be built, why should I finance the hugely inefficient farming methods of France. Why should I be dictated to by Chirac when France and Germany have both broken all the rules regarding Euro membership, yet decide not to fine themselves.
It is about time the Europeans entered the real world and ended farm subsidies. Just think how much tax would not have to be collected or could be channelled into other more worthy projects.
Pre 1984 New Zealand was the same as you, agriculture subsidies and various types of support were abounded.
Then in one fell swoop it was all ended, finished, done, no more money from government. There was, of course, much wailing and gnashing of teeth and a tiny percentage of farmers went to the wall.
However, within 5 or 6 years the shock was over and farmers realised the many advantages of standing on their own two feet. Since removal of subsidies the farming sector has grown faster than the rest of the economy. Farming productivity has improved by an average of 5.9% per year since 1986, that is nearly 6 times more than pre 1984.
Ask any NZ farmer now what he thinks and he will say to his European counterparts, "get off the gravy train".
Just makes me laugh that those that generally go on about the state of Govt in this country and do take the option of getting away, not paying tax here, although Mr brown has plans to scupper that, quite often dont vote to get this bunch of Muppets out of power....
What happens when you come back here guys, if you ever do...these idiots have ruined your country!!
Did you vote Maxy101 ? I would guess prob not.
Being a Kiwi lass Henry Crun, I am with you on what you say....I think it;s time the Brits stood up and told these fools in Europe just where to get off
xx
Last edited by Helli-Gurl; 11th Jun 2005 at 05:27.
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