So what, the guy had a baton - I have an expanding car-lock in my car, will I get arrested for having an offensive weapon?? I had a couple of brand new hammers in the boot the other day, does that make me a potential mass murderer??!!
No.
A car lock is legal, and designed to be used in a car. You can legally buy hammers, and keep them in your car. The man who was arrested had an Illegal weapon, not a lock or hammer. Fair enough, if he wanted to carry a weapon for protection, knowing he was breaking the law. Just don't whinging to the newspapers when he got caught.
The uninsured hit and run driver should have been locked up for at least 10 years (in my opinion).
Without going into specifics as its pointless and he can't reply. I would think this chap has guilded the lilly somewhat.
Some of his comments are cobblers, some have a vague ring of truth, but at the end of the day he was properly arrested for an offence thats been about since 1953, so hardly anything new and exciting.
His claim to have the baton to protect himself at home doesn't really hold water, its not much use locked in a briefcase. In any event it would not have been illegal in his home, it is in his car!
The fact he was charged means he probably has some previous convictions and as for the parking ticket, I well if he writes to the Fixed penelty Office (assuming his story is correct) it will be cancelled.
Any chance you'll read the story? If you do, you'll see that "It is perfectly legal to buy both of these items", and incidentally one of the charges is "carrying a bladed weapon in public". A swiss army knife. That is unjustifiable. It is neither a weapon, nor carried in public, being in a locked brief case in his car. It is terrible injustice, a sick waste of police time. Then you would see why he bought the baton: for home security, as there are too few police where he lives. It seems our resources are taken up arrecting people who are no threat to anyone instead.
Read what the police said. It makes no sense at all - they seem to claim to be protectingthe MoD from terrorists, yet take themselves off the street to arrest a man with a penknife. They clearly cannot understand the concept of racism, nor of counter terrorist tactics.
You might also note that when a policeman assaulted Mr Samengo-Turner in front of that man's solicitor, the Sergeant was going to charge Mr Samengo-Turner! That was the final item that just stunned me beyond expression. I now know what my Dutch friend feels like. I had been astounded when she said that no Dutch person would ask a policeman for directions, as they fear, distrust and dislike the police. I could not believe that in Western Europe. Reading this story, I can.
Can you really say there is nothing to this story? That astounds me beyond any coherent expression, so I am sorry if I do not explain myself well. I literally cannot see how any normal, liberal, decent, honest person brought up in the open society that ours once was can say "So, what's the point of this thread?. A man was arrested for carrying an illegal weapon. Not exactly ground breaking news" or that "...he was properly arrested..." (especially when you loftily claim, BJ, that he is talking cobblers, without even attempting to tell us the true story, which you must be claiming to know, so we can discuss that). Can you explain those comments to me?
Guess I'd be in trouble. The standard tool kit in the centre console of my car has a swiss army knife, with the brand of the car on it. I have never used it, because I habitually carry a swiss army knife in my pocket, and that gets used a lot. Its a necessary part of my work tools. As for a batton, WTF is a batton anyway? Would I be in trouble for having a broom handle in the car, or a hammer handle, both suitable for use as battons?
I think the world has gone mad!!! Now I really do need to protect myself
I have a 4 "D" cell maglite torch. It is used to provide light at night. Possibly I could be arrested for that as well. There is also a piece of pipe that was supplied with my vehicle as a jack handle. I agree with Feeton.
Quote:
I think the world has gone mad!!! Now I really do need to protect myself
Well Feet, if you live in Victoria, which last we met I think you do, the reality of things are, 1, the knife in your car is illegal, and, 2. the one you carry is also illegal. The question is, would you actually be charged with anything? The answer to that would be a qualified NO.
It works like this. Simply carrying a knife in public, whether concealed or not is illegal. Simple. Someone who needs a knife for work or whatever may carry one suitable for that work, but only when they are actually at work, or to or from.
Basically, what this means is that if, for some reason you came to the attention of the coppers, and they found you carrying a knife, you MAY be charged. You go to court, and plead your case, ie, "I need it for work" The beak makes the decision, not the coppers.
As far as the baton, or broom handle, or axe handle in the car, the baton is illegal to have, unless you are a bona fide collector of such. Or required and authorised for your work. (security or such) The broomhandle or axehandle are not illegal in themselves, however, if you have them in the boot of the car "for my protection" then they are, and you COULD be charged.
I would hasten to add however, that for the coppers here to take exception to you carrying some such items, I would say that those items are the least of your worries, if you get my drift. You are probably in trouble for a whole lot more than that.
Bidgee, since I don't know what part of the "+10" zone you are in, I can tell you that in Victoria carrying the torch isn't a problem, unless you are carrying it for the purpose of self defence or you are using it as a method of assault. Note, I did not say, as a method of self defence!!! Think of it this way. I have it because I need a torch in my car. No other reason. However, if I was to be assaulted, it would possibly be quite a useful tool of self defence. There is a huge difference between what you say it is for and what you don't say it is for. As always, bear in mind, you are quite properly allowed to defend yourself in whatever way you can, provided it is reasonable and proportional.
G'day Dale, Still live in Vic mate. The knife in the centre console is standard HSV kit and as such is an important part of the image of the car. Its sacred along with the type pressure gauge, torch and wheel cap tweezer. I think a cop could pull over any HSV anytime and find the knife, they all have it.
As for the swiss army knife in my pocket, it is part of my work equipment. And if the cops want to check my advertised hours are 8:00 till 22:00 and at all other times I'm on call.
I'm interested to know what a cop (as distinct from the actual law) would do if he saw me wandering around a paddock with my sheath knife and a rifle as I used to do? Very hard to skin a fox without it.
Feets, I figure YOU'D say very much the same thing I would in the same circumstances...... How sad the place has become....... Someone sees you out with the rifle these days, you likely to get the SOG and other nasties after you post haste. Have we really become such a society of inward thinking, irresponsible, clowns???? Anyway, about the knife, just because it comes as equipment in the vehicle, doesn't make it legal. Laws change, and it's not like HSV are going to keep up with such things until someone points it out to them I guess. The fact that I've never heard of anyone getting charged out of that circumstance probably reinforces my point about the MIGHT get charged thing above. Cheers anyway mate....
Ee, I remember, time were, we couldn't afford price of a baton in't car....
Personally I always carry a rifle in the truck. Only the .22, and this is perfectly legal in NZ (for a licence holder such as myself) so long as it isn't loaded (the mag is in my shirt pocket) and the vehicle is locked when I'm not in it.
Bunnies on the vineyard are a problem, and my purpose is perfectly legit. Actually until reading this thread, I hadn't contemplated the possibility of needing a firearm in the truck for self defence. My first port of call in such a situation would always be the steel-tipped wicket behind the seat.
And the swiss army knife in my pocket has been there for almost twenty years, and guess what, I haven't used that to commit a crime either.
Gee.....maybe it isn't weapons which hurt people; maybe it's the people who use them?
Gee.....maybe it isn't weapons which hurt people; maybe it's the people who use them?
Mr Wolf, I agree absolutely. This is something which has been lost in today’s world because of the guerrilla tactics now employed by the nasty people. Once upon a time you could pick out the bad guys because they had a black hat but these days, everyone wears all sorts of different colour hats and nothing is clear anymore. I don’t think that is any excuse for being totally reactionary to the extent of banning pocket knifes in general public places.
A couple of weeks ago I was in a public park wielding a knife with a 250mm blade, and I’m sure over the next few weeks many other people will do the same. How else do you carve the ham at a xmas party? I agree that there is no need to have flick knives or 200 mm blades in your back pocket, but they are far removed from a Swiss Army knife.
Lets get things back on an even keel and acknowledge that many common indispensable things can be weapons (cars, planes diesel and fertilizer are frequently used) and it’s a matter of attitude of the person holding it. I can’t wait for someone to suggest banning any of these items, or better yet banning farms where at least 3 of those four items will be found, along side a knife or three. A much better solution to the problem is general public awareness of the problem of terrorism, and following 9/11 everyone has that. Think about this: if a group of men could get on board an aircraft with a packing knife each, what would happen today? I think you will find a very different result to 9/11 solely due to the experience the public has now acquired.
I only hope that Governments the world over recognise this change in society and react accordingly, rather than knee jerk over reactions like we have seen.
I had a friend (now dead) who was a very senior UK police officer. He commented once that "for the Met, you stand them in a corner. If they can grunt and their hands are below their knees, they're in!"
Bit unfair, but comments Ive heard from other UK policemen suggests that the Met in particular do not give a damn about the public. Why in this case, that the officer concerned hasn't been at least suspended (preferably by his genitals!) until the assault case is heard suggests a continuing degree of Metropolitan police arrogance.
Send Clowns, I did read the story, and if you read it more carefully, you would see that he was not arrested for buying the baton, but for having it in public. An extending baton is now classed as an offensive weapon, so getting caught with one in public is a criminal offence.
[QUOTE] Amendment of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 The Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988[2], (which specifies offensive weapons for the purposes of section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988), shall be amended by the insertion into paragraph 1 of that Schedule after sub-paragraph (o) the following:
(q) a straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon (sometimes known as a baton)."
Hazel Blears Minister of State Home Office 5th May 2004
I totally agree that the police went over the top, but the fact still remains that he was caught with an illegal weapon.
(a) He was also charged with having a bladed weapon in public, a reference to a utility knife with a safety feature.
(b) He did not have either item in public. They were in a closed briefcase in his car.
(c) You still have not explained how you said the behaviour of these police, which I found absolutely frightening, horrifying evidence of a system allowing a police state to develop is "not ... ground breaking [sic] news". That was my main point.
These police did not just go over the top. They wasted their own time, offended and alienated a member of the public who will now be reluctantly co-operative if at all. They are destroying the legitimacy of all UK policing, and behaving like a criminal gang, hassling people for breaking arbitary rules. They behaved like bigoted, bullying thugs. This is disgraceful, shocking, frightening abuse of authority, not "over the top".
Read the story, the whole thing. These nasty, self-righteous, petty officials sneered at, threatened with a decent stay in prison, deprived of his liberty and finally physically attacked a man who had absolutely done nothing wrong, and was no threat to anybody. We are free. Whatever the law states, we have the right not to be persecuted by thugs, whether self or state appointed.
I get the impression there was a time when a policeman was able to be pragmatic, assess the fact that you are a tradesman and you require your tools, and having a life that doesnt revolve around checking every nook and cranny for so called offensive weapons would see common sense, when you are not working,but still have that knife that fell out into the carpet under the footwell of your van with Joe Bloggs Plumber written on the side.Unfortunately in this Government target related world we live in its all about turnover and if the cop can add another body to this arrest rate then he will probably do so and look at the legal profession whose agenda will be to prove you guilty or otherwise.
