Criminal conviction (spent) + Airline Employment?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Criminal conviction (spent) + Airline Employment?
Long story short, I was convicted of drink driving (barely over the legal limit) and punished with 12 months no driving, which was reduced to 9 months because I did the 'rehabilitation' course.
My relationship with alcohol is good. Quite frankly if I knew I was over the legal limit I would not have driven my car. I had just turned 20 three weeks earlier at the time.
My conviction is due to become spent, and I'd very much like to do my CPL / IR over the coming months. I do know that once the conviction is spent, I do not have to declare it, and that it will not show up under Basic Disclosure CRB check (though could someone confirm this??).
Regardless of all this, given the amount of time, money and effort that it takes to gain your CPL, will I be able to land myself a job at the end of it?
I live in the UK and ideally my employer would be UK based.
My relationship with alcohol is good. Quite frankly if I knew I was over the legal limit I would not have driven my car. I had just turned 20 three weeks earlier at the time.
My conviction is due to become spent, and I'd very much like to do my CPL / IR over the coming months. I do know that once the conviction is spent, I do not have to declare it, and that it will not show up under Basic Disclosure CRB check (though could someone confirm this??).
Regardless of all this, given the amount of time, money and effort that it takes to gain your CPL, will I be able to land myself a job at the end of it?
I live in the UK and ideally my employer would be UK based.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They can ask you if you have any spent or unspent convictions at interview but unless the position applied for is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act you can answer no.
Check the Disclosure & Barring Service website for the list of exempt occupations. I had a quick look and pilot doesn't seem to be on there.
However if you were over 18 when convicted then the conviction will not be filtered from your DBS check until 11 years have passed (5.5 years if under 18).
Therefore you can legally say no but the DBS check will show it up.
Check the Disclosure & Barring Service website for the list of exempt occupations. I had a quick look and pilot doesn't seem to be on there.
However if you were over 18 when convicted then the conviction will not be filtered from your DBS check until 11 years have passed (5.5 years if under 18).
Therefore you can legally say no but the DBS check will show it up.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Melbourne
Age: 48
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What Act were you actually prosecuted under
From Victoria Australia very much British based law & most other things
In Vict if you had a low range DUI generally you would be prosecuted under the road traffic act , not the crimes act
A low range DUI would not be regarded as a "criminal offence" in Victoria , in the more general sense when they say "crime" they are talking about violence , drugs , & dishonesty offences ,not a marginally over the limit DUI.
So I wouldn't be interpreting the word "criminal" in a highly technical sense on a job application , as I don't think that is what they are asking. As if they were if you contested a small speeding fine (instead of paying on the spot penalty) in court & lost the case. You would technically have a "criminal record" but that is in a highly technical sense & in my view isn't what they are asking
In any case isn't one of the primary reasons for a spent conviction program , so that you do not have to declare trivial or historic matters to most employers
Know this is from Aust but we did a copy & paste of UK law. You should ask an experienced criminal solicitor or a few
Remember "criminal" involves a " mens rea" or guilty conscience & intent to commit a crime. How does mistakenly driving when 0.06 fit that
Crime is Violence, Drugs / Dishonesty
Think the advice above complete bollocks
You shouldn't be relying on legal advice from BB heroes
From Victoria Australia very much British based law & most other things
In Vict if you had a low range DUI generally you would be prosecuted under the road traffic act , not the crimes act
A low range DUI would not be regarded as a "criminal offence" in Victoria , in the more general sense when they say "crime" they are talking about violence , drugs , & dishonesty offences ,not a marginally over the limit DUI.
So I wouldn't be interpreting the word "criminal" in a highly technical sense on a job application , as I don't think that is what they are asking. As if they were if you contested a small speeding fine (instead of paying on the spot penalty) in court & lost the case. You would technically have a "criminal record" but that is in a highly technical sense & in my view isn't what they are asking
In any case isn't one of the primary reasons for a spent conviction program , so that you do not have to declare trivial or historic matters to most employers
Know this is from Aust but we did a copy & paste of UK law. You should ask an experienced criminal solicitor or a few
Remember "criminal" involves a " mens rea" or guilty conscience & intent to commit a crime. How does mistakenly driving when 0.06 fit that
Crime is Violence, Drugs / Dishonesty
Think the advice above complete bollocks
You shouldn't be relying on legal advice from BB heroes
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Banana_Peel
Where do you intend to undertake training for your CPL/IR?
Flyboat
Your view of the interpretation of a Criminal Conviction in the State of Victoria is not the same as that found in the UK, spent or otherwise.
Where do you intend to undertake training for your CPL/IR?
Flyboat
Your view of the interpretation of a Criminal Conviction in the State of Victoria is not the same as that found in the UK, spent or otherwise.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: @ a loss
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How times change.
I joined the RAF in 1977 during a 1 year ban (barely over the limit, like Banana_Peel). When I read about the rehabilitation of offenders act I thought I was scuppered. However, the only time it came up during the interview was when the officer asked me what the lowest point in my life so far had been. I replied 'when I was prosecuted for drink driving sir', to which he said 'Yes, I suppose it would be'.
The topic wasn't mentioned again, and I was still in the middle of the ban when I started officer training, and still off the road when I started flying training. By the time I joined an airline the conviction was long spent.
Hopefully someone with current airline recruiting knowledge will contribute.
I joined the RAF in 1977 during a 1 year ban (barely over the limit, like Banana_Peel). When I read about the rehabilitation of offenders act I thought I was scuppered. However, the only time it came up during the interview was when the officer asked me what the lowest point in my life so far had been. I replied 'when I was prosecuted for drink driving sir', to which he said 'Yes, I suppose it would be'.
The topic wasn't mentioned again, and I was still in the middle of the ban when I started officer training, and still off the road when I started flying training. By the time I joined an airline the conviction was long spent.
Hopefully someone with current airline recruiting knowledge will contribute.
Last edited by Bus14; 13th Jun 2016 at 15:50. Reason: Forgot what year I joined the RAF (that's what drink does to you!)
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you everybody for your replies. I'll try and answer each one of you in turn:
FlyingGreek: Unless times have changed, which after reading YOP's post it seems that they might have, my conviction is due to become spent at the end of October 2017 and so I'll be sure to get a Basic Disclosure certificate after that date. I think I will contact a few select airlines (as well as BALPA) to see what they make of things. Thank you.
parkfell: I've had my Class 1 medical for some time now. I'll be renewing it before I start my CPL/IR next Spring.
YOP: I believe that I am able to answer no once the conviction is spent. The second part of your message concerns me a little because I had turned 20 just two weeks previous to getting caught. During my 'rehabilitation' course which I did to shorten my driving ban, I was told that the conviction is spent 5 years after the date of occurrence, but the endorsement I received on my driver's licence will remain until I'm about 30. So if what you say is correct, it won't become spent until I am 31?
Flyboat North: Thanks for your message but I do believe there is a bit of variance between British and Australian law
It is a criminal conviction, unlike speeding which would be a motoring offence.
Reverserbucket: Potentially Sweden since the cost is considerably lower than here in the UK.
Bus14: I wish it was that simple now!
Once again, thanks for the replies folks. I'm beginning to think I may be a little bit
Hopefully someone with recruitment info will see and contribute to this topic. It is insanity to think that a stupid move made when I mistakenly drove ever-so-slightly over the legal drink drive limit as a 20 year old would have such undesirable consequences right up until my thirties.
FlyingGreek: Unless times have changed, which after reading YOP's post it seems that they might have, my conviction is due to become spent at the end of October 2017 and so I'll be sure to get a Basic Disclosure certificate after that date. I think I will contact a few select airlines (as well as BALPA) to see what they make of things. Thank you.
parkfell: I've had my Class 1 medical for some time now. I'll be renewing it before I start my CPL/IR next Spring.
YOP: I believe that I am able to answer no once the conviction is spent. The second part of your message concerns me a little because I had turned 20 just two weeks previous to getting caught. During my 'rehabilitation' course which I did to shorten my driving ban, I was told that the conviction is spent 5 years after the date of occurrence, but the endorsement I received on my driver's licence will remain until I'm about 30. So if what you say is correct, it won't become spent until I am 31?
Flyboat North: Thanks for your message but I do believe there is a bit of variance between British and Australian law
It is a criminal conviction, unlike speeding which would be a motoring offence.Reverserbucket: Potentially Sweden since the cost is considerably lower than here in the UK.
Bus14: I wish it was that simple now!
Once again, thanks for the replies folks. I'm beginning to think I may be a little bit
Hopefully someone with recruitment info will see and contribute to this topic. It is insanity to think that a stupid move made when I mistakenly drove ever-so-slightly over the legal drink drive limit as a 20 year old would have such undesirable consequences right up until my thirties.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LGW
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have a look at the link below. It depends on which endorsement code has been added to your driving license. At first glance it seems to me that a drink driving (DR) endorsement is spent after 11 years.
https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-en...riving-licence
https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-en...riving-licence
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Banana Peel,
I am in the same boat as you, having a spent conviction from 10 years back.
I am considering how I should answer the question of if you have "ever" been convicted of an offense.
The basic disclosure is clean, but do you still need to answer yes and disclose it to the airline? it would be much appreciated if you can share your experience in this matter.
Would it be worth it to call them directly and ask I wonder...
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers
I am in the same boat as you, having a spent conviction from 10 years back.
I am considering how I should answer the question of if you have "ever" been convicted of an offense.
The basic disclosure is clean, but do you still need to answer yes and disclose it to the airline? it would be much appreciated if you can share your experience in this matter.
Would it be worth it to call them directly and ask I wonder...
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ireland
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Security clearance may well be worth exploring... this can spook airlines.
The UK system is quite advanced in their approach but other jurisdictions in EU not so developed when it comes to disclosure and disregard terms
Others may know more facts here..
The UK system is quite advanced in their approach but other jurisdictions in EU not so developed when it comes to disclosure and disregard terms
Others may know more facts here..
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are asked if you have ever been convicted of an offence then you would have to answer yes. It might not appear on your disclosure but they have asked if you have ever been convicted, to which you have.
Surely it would be better to be completely honest with a potential employer than not?
There's potentially 3 scenarios.
Firstly you declare your past conviction and they reject your application.
Second, you declare your past conviction and you get the job.
Third, you don't declare your conviction, get the job, then they discover this past conviction which could then mean you losing that job.
Maybe that's just how my mind works, but personally I would declare it and be honest.
Surely it would be better to be completely honest with a potential employer than not?
There's potentially 3 scenarios.
Firstly you declare your past conviction and they reject your application.
Second, you declare your past conviction and you get the job.
Third, you don't declare your conviction, get the job, then they discover this past conviction which could then mean you losing that job.
Maybe that's just how my mind works, but personally I would declare it and be honest.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keep all the police records of your arrest etc - when you apply for a visa for certain countries, you'll need your police certificate. It will say "no live trace" - and that shows you have had something before (it will say "no trace" otherwise). For example, getting a visa to the US, if it says "no live trace", you will have to provide a detailed report which will include spent convictions too.
You will have trouble getting a Canadian visa with a DUI, other countries (including USA) are fine. And yes, you will have to declare it.
You will have trouble getting a Canadian visa with a DUI, other countries (including USA) are fine. And yes, you will have to declare it.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are many ways to look at this:
Your Training
If visas are to be considered should you wish to save money by training abroad then the nation can essentially ask you whatever they want to. The United States, for example, may well want to look into your past with more scrutiny than a UK as they're not governed by our laws and reserve the right to do so. Further, the U.S. in particular conduct a search into your past above and beyond that for a visa should you wish to pilot an aircraft in their airspace. They're very anal following 9/11 and they have the right to be i guess. So, if they deem a drinking penalty inappropriate it could hinder you. If you are to train in the UK, the rehabilitation of offenders will apply.
Employment
If you're eventually employed in the UK post training then the role of pilot does not fall within the list of exemptions as per the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975" and therefore the employer can only ask about unspent convictions. When it comes to the UK CAA issuing an airside permit, the same applies and an explanation to that effect can be found on the UK CAA website. In this case it should work in your favour.
The drink driving conviction in the UK endorsed to a UK licence remains for 11 years from the point of conviction. If you're outside of this window you'll not have to declare it to an employer unless the role you apply to does fall within that exemptions legislation.
Hope that helps
Your Training
If visas are to be considered should you wish to save money by training abroad then the nation can essentially ask you whatever they want to. The United States, for example, may well want to look into your past with more scrutiny than a UK as they're not governed by our laws and reserve the right to do so. Further, the U.S. in particular conduct a search into your past above and beyond that for a visa should you wish to pilot an aircraft in their airspace. They're very anal following 9/11 and they have the right to be i guess. So, if they deem a drinking penalty inappropriate it could hinder you. If you are to train in the UK, the rehabilitation of offenders will apply.
Employment
If you're eventually employed in the UK post training then the role of pilot does not fall within the list of exemptions as per the "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975" and therefore the employer can only ask about unspent convictions. When it comes to the UK CAA issuing an airside permit, the same applies and an explanation to that effect can be found on the UK CAA website. In this case it should work in your favour.
The drink driving conviction in the UK endorsed to a UK licence remains for 11 years from the point of conviction. If you're outside of this window you'll not have to declare it to an employer unless the role you apply to does fall within that exemptions legislation.
Hope that helps
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USA is fine with a single DUI, it is not considered a "crime involving moral turpitude". Multiple DUIs need an alcohol assessment, and they can be disqualifying.
The problem might be if your employer wants a "passport with unlimited travel rights", and if you have disqualifying convictions, it is technically not unlimited (for example: Canada and DUI)
The problem might be if your employer wants a "passport with unlimited travel rights", and if you have disqualifying convictions, it is technically not unlimited (for example: Canada and DUI)
