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Wizz Air MPL - CTC

Old 8th Jun 2015, 20:39
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wizzzzz

forget the poor salary, its the colour of the planes that worries me
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 05:34
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Hi dudes,

I attended the CTC roadshow for Wizz Air, and tought it interesting to share the details.

Training will start in 14th of September, with application and selection in july.
Guess what everyone is interested about is the pricing: GBP 93,000 (EUR 128,000) for the full program, with a 7K deposit and the rest paid in 13 installments. The selection fee is GBP 245, also class 1 medical needs to be from an approved partner so according to them GBP 400. Food and personal insurance is not included in the price but everything else is - landing / testing fees, if you need more time in aircraft you get it for free, plane tickets to training facilities, accomodation etc.

The A320 Type Rating is included in the price. A guy asked about the starting salary, which they were unwilling to give out for some reason. They explained that its reasonable to pay back a loan within 5-7 years while not "starving to death", but all contracts are different so no exact numbers. They are working with banks to open up this kind of loan as its backed by a wizz job guarantee. The usual structure is pay less or nothing in the first 2 years and pay a higher amount later once you are SFO or Capt - then it wont hurt.

You become SFO in 1500 hrs (your 2nd year)
Capt. from 3500 hrs
possibly training capt. from 4500 hrs
Pay increase each 1K hrs flown from then on

You will fly about 850 hrs a year, usually on a 6/4 schedule.

Kinda fishy, because you are at the airlines mercy. Not sure if you know the terms of the employment before you sign up for the 93,000 GBP program, but according to them you are considered an employee from day 1 when you start training.

Salary starts about 2 weeks after you have graduated from CTC. They are looking for 28 trainees in 2015, and this is a 5 year program which means CTC will train several hundred Wizz pilots from scratch. According to Wizz they had to hire 200 pilots last year alone to meet the demand, and are expecting to increase this each year.

Another important thing is in case you start the training, but fail at some point and you have to drop out then all costs are refunded to you apart from the 7K deposit.

Good luck to all!
schienenschreck is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2015, 09:08
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Intriguing post, certainly looks like the scheme has its merits but it seems very vague at the moment.More detail needed.

A guy asked about the starting salary, which they were unwilling to give out for some reason. They explained that its reasonable to pay back a loan within 5-7 years while not "starving to death", but all contracts are different so no exact numbers.
They're going to have to release it at some point, signing up for a 93,000 grand course without knowing the starting salary is obscene. They maybe just haven't finalised it.

They are working with banks to open up this kind of loan as its backed by a wizz job guarantee.
If Wizzair are guaranteeing the loan (which I doubt), then the scheme becomes much more attractive.

The usual structure is pay less or nothing in the first 2 years and pay a higher amount later once you are SFO or Capt - then it wont hurt.
Meanwhile the interest will be piling up. I'm no expert but I'd be looking to pay off as much debt as my salary allowed, not take a break until upgrading.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 09:39
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28 trainees with CTC, and probably 12 with CEFA. Wizz Air first said they are looking for up to 40 trainees in the first year. Also on the CEFA website it says they have the capacity to train 12 persons.

As for the Wizz Air acting as a guarantor, that is the idea of offering you that conditional contract of employment when you start your training, that way you can borrow the needed money. As previously said, they are still talking to the banks, more information will be released soon.

But indeed, you must know the salary first before signing any contract so you can plan if you can pay the money back from your salary or no.

Another important point is there will be assessments centers in Hungary, Poland, Romania and UK.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 11:11
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Wizzair will not ever guarantee the loan, that would be quite the treat, but they do guarantee a job after successful graduation or money back. Meaning a bank might just be able to finance this as you have a written guarantee to receive work and salary.

And I wholeheartedly agree with the reasoning that they must reveal the salary - from entry level on - in order to make a proper decision. If the flight training is an investment, then you need to know the returns as well.
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Old 12th Jun 2015, 20:18
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They have shown a "typical" salary scheme today in Warsaw:

FO
€20k base, 36k total
SFO (from 1500h)
25k base, 45 total
CPT (from 3500h)
40k base, 81 total
Then, as mentioned, some increase every 1000h flown
jamesbond6 is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2015, 12:12
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Has anyone considering signing actually done any basic maths? The pay, and I use the term loosely, barely covers loan repayments. How would even the most enthusiastic applicant live, eat, travel to work etc? I disagree with those who term this slavery. Slaves are at least fed.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 13:04
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Anyone going for something like this is go with your eyes wide open. You know from to start what you are facing. Just use your calculator and do your maths... and yes, take into account 'the worst case scenario', that means to do your maths with the lower salary possible.

Take a loan of -120.000 € (few thousands more or less). If you have some funds which you will use to pay a part of your flight training, count on a loan of for example -100.000€. All goes well, flight training done and TR, flying and starting to get a salary. How much you will need to LIVE? If you get a salary of 2000€, half of that is for loan reapayments every months so you get 1000€ to live, for some years. Maybe in 5-7 years you can start to make your own money.

Everybody considering this, do your maths and consider your future.

Bank never losses, people do.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 18:45
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Jamesbond6, those are gross or net salaries?
afusaru is offline  
Old 14th Jun 2015, 20:04
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I did not pay attention or it wasn't clear on the slide and nobody asked for this clarification later. It is both safe and sensible to assume those numbers are before tax.
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Old 16th Jun 2015, 08:36
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Do the maths... Should be easy for you aspiring pilots:

128K loan, and 4% interest rate (I think this is reasonable, maybe even a bit on the lower side considering eastern europe). If you are lucky then maybe the interest rate is fixed for the entire period, since a time will come in the not too distant future where interest rates will rise... you dont want to be on the sucker end of a 100K plus loan with your interest rate doubling, believe me.

Back on topic:

128K loan, 4% interest annualy:

Initial deposit:€0.00
Loan payments:€146,967.01
Balloon payment at end:€0.00
Total payable:€146,967.01
84 monthly payments of:€1,749.61
Total interest:€18,967.01

This means, that if you want to repay your loan in 7 years you would need to pay €1,749.61 each and every month. The interest you will pay over 7 years equals €18,967.01.

If you want to pay back your loan in 6 years, then make this €2,002.58, but then you pay less interest obviously, "only" €16,186.01.

These are actually only simplified numbers, because you dont take the loan in one lump sum, but you also wont make any repayments until you start working (ca 2 years), all the while interest is accruing.

Lets take the salary side into consideration:

FO
€20k base, 36k total
SFO (from 1500h)
25k base, 45 total
CPT (from 3500h)
40k base, 81 total

You fly 850h a year. Meaning for the first year you will earn 36K total and you will have to pay 20 995 Euros as a loan repayment. The rest 16K is what remains for taxes and to live. I dont think this is doable. If your net is 30% less than your gross pay, then there will only remain around 5000 Euros for the whole first and most of the second year after repayment of the loan.

When you become SFO then 10 000 will remain ( your 3rd year most likely, it takes 22 months to reach 1500 hrs). From then on you will reach captain in a total of 48 months. By this time you have paid off about half of your loan, and if you earn 81K gross, with the usual 21K loan payment a year, then there remains 36K for living. At this point its quite easily done.

After 84 months you are officially student loan free, and can enjoy all the benefits of flying on a relatively high salary.

Of course the bank might understand this model, so they might offer you something along the lines of first 2 years is interest only: This means you would pay around 500 Euros a month, and the real repayment will start only when you are SFO. Thats kinda doable, but then you have to expect around 10 years until you repay your loan, which is in my opinion a long time. Especially if you are young and want kids etc.

Living the dream on 10,000 Euros a year. Just fyi, you can easily earn this much as an IT support guy on a helpdesk, without any qualifications. The downside is you can't fly the 'Bus.

Good luck!
schienenschreck is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2015, 17:57
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Guys be realistic people are paying OAA/FTE + FR= 150000€ or even worst 140000 for working in Volotea (717)! We can do nothing!

You can go modular work you way and soon or later get it! Anyway, that is life!
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 18:11
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Would be nice not to see insults anymore here. If you read the whole topic you only find 'idiot' 'dumb' 'stupid', etc. And you only have assumptions, as they did not releave any financial aspects yet.
This is to individuals to decide if it is a good shot or not based on a informed decision. If one decides to go for it then good luck, it doesn't mean he is an idiot.
I wish I could read here news and information one might need.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 19:22
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@Syntax Error

You should check your knowledge before you go accusing other people for mistakes!

1) the SFO's in Wizz have been given a RAISE in the sector pay, so indeed they make more money than just the Base Pay difference of 5.000€.

2) the pay back period for the TR is 3 years, not 15-18 months as you say.

3) taxation in many cases can be 0, especially for the starting FO salary.

4) in most bases you can live with less than 1.000€/month if you don't want a fancy life.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 00:40
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You really are a wise guy Syntax Error

To begin with, I am neither "management" nor "CTC" (as you accuse me) and actually I am not trying to defend this programme.
I just like people to be accurate, especially when they try to teach other people lessons with an attitude!
Before beginning my flying career I went to the London School of Economics for my BA and Cranfield University for my MSc, while in between also got an MBA so, trust me, I know how to deal with numbers better than you!

1) You wrote:
First the only difference between FO and SFO is BASE PAY of 5000 Euros, so how come you have calculated 16K extra on the FO and SFO 20K?
This is FIRST ERROR.
This is YOUR first error, as you already admitted in your second post. SFO's have different sector pay.


2) You wrote:
The sector pay has been increased by 30%, a normal sector was 30 Euros, now it's 39 Euros. My mistake, I used 33 Euros instead, which on 30 sectors is 990 Euros, should have been 1170 Euros! Yes those 180 Euros is going to save the day on such a big loan, not!
One more mistake. You compare the SFO's standard sector pay to the FO's medium sector pay.
So the correct calculation is: FO 30x30 = 900 euros SFO 30x39= 1.170 euros
Therefore the difference between the two is 270 euros, not 180!
And, of course, this is really the worst case scenario. The difference gets even bigger in a more realistic sector mix.


3) You wrote:
First if you do TR with Wizz they deduct 1000 Euros a month for 15 - 18 months
You are wrong again. The pay back period is 36 months (so approximatelly 416 euros/month) BUT at the end of the bond period you get half of the money (7.500 euros) back in cash as a bonus. So in reality you have paid 208 euros/month for the TR. So I can't see how it is even worse, as per your claim


4) You wrote:
At least expect minimum 1000 Euros for rent and food and utilities.
Not really mate. In most bases you can live with well below 1.000 euros/month but it all depends on the lifestyle you want.


5) You wrote:
So if you think you can get 16.000 Euros in Sector pay, of 30 Euros a sector, I can tell you straight away you have no idea. That would equal approx. 44 sectors a month, and the only base where this will happen is Gdansk!
Well, with a realistic sector mix (not always flying standard sectors, but also medium, long and XL) you need only around 36 sectors per month. This could happen in almost any base.


6) You wrote:
Taxes are NOT 0%, I know Greece would like it to be like this, as they borrow money, spend it, and cant pay it back! But that is not how the real world works!
If you want to talk about the Greek economy or you need some private lessons on fiscal policy feel free to PM me since it is not interesting to the rest of the members.
However two quick words about how "the real world works":
A) Learn the difference between Tax and Interest Rate. If Greece would like something, that would be zero Interest Rates on the loans, not zero taxes (which makes no sense!)
B) As a Greek citizen if you work and live abroad you get a 100% tax exemption, provided you are taxed at source.


7) You wrote:
EINSTEINS!
So next time, before trying to teach other people lessons and being disrespectful towards your colleagues, do your homework a bit more thoroughly... Einstein
sierra_sotiropoulos is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2015, 12:22
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Cool

Am I wrong in thinking that they wouldn't deduct money for type rating as we would have paid it ourselves to Ctc? Also wouldn't we receive a 69k bond over 7 years like the easy jet mpl?
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 13:11
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First if you do TR with Wizz they deduct 1000 Euros a month for 15 - 18 months
I don't know if this will apply with an MPL scheme. The TR is part of the course, so you're not really doing it with Wizzair. Remember guys, the finance for this scheme hasn't been announced as yet. I'm not expecting it to be good, but there's no point arguing over something before the numbers are released!
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 14:52
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People still thinking on getting a -150.000€ Loan on this conditions..

Be very careful everyone. Specially with the banks. We are all mature individuals here and yes we all can do maths pretty well (prior to embark on anything) but real life is usually different of what you though initially it would be like. Be very carefull.

I think this scheme could be a good opportunity to someone who can pay it without taking a loan from a bank. But getting in 150.000 debt with anyone it's not a good idea in any case... My opinion.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 17:28
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Family money

I need to work 17 hours as a waitress to pay for a PPL lesson! I don't know the life of the others but I want to help as much as I can to self fund my training! Of course parents will help a bit in my modular training but I will try to pay as much as I can!

Why am I saying that? Well my family have their own business and they put a hard work to run it properly! The money of your family is yours and deserves some respect, don't give it to FTE/OAA/CTC!

Go modular, pay half the price (or less) and join Ryanair or whatever!

Regards!
EC DKN is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2015, 06:47
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Relax guys... it isn't obligatory to join. If you want you can try if not keep calm and looking for better deal. We are still waiting for financial details but you know better and argue.

All the best and good luck.
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