Where are the Jet Jobs ?

[climb11thousand]

Hi guys and gals, I'm a long time reader, rare poster.
I'm after a jet job, ANYWHERE, but I don't have a type rating or 500 hours on type. Neither am I a cadet or from the EU so don't have a JAA licence or whatever.

I do have a full unrestricted ICAO ATPL and about 3000 hours total with about 1300 multi engine, 800 of that lite multi turboprop (KingAirs & such).

Unfortunately I live in a part of the world where getting on a jet is a long hard climb and depending on age sometimes unrealistically achievable. Current days you would be very lucky to get a widebody command before 55, thats if you've been flying most of your professional life !

So, I've had enough, and am willing to move anywhere that might have me, where I can get a visa and who will take an ICAO pilot with no Jet experience already.

Anyone know of anywhere ???

Thanks a bunch for your help !

[Bealzebub]

I'm after a jet job, ANYWHERE, but I don't have a type rating or 500 hours on type. Neither am I a cadet or from the EU so don't have a JAA licence or whatever.

That rules out airlines that require you to be type rated or have basic levels of on type experience. It rules out many airlines with cadet programmes. It rules out most European airlines and depending on the definition of "whatever" possibly many others as well.

I do have a full unrestricted ICAO ATPL and about 3000 hours total with about 1300 multi engine, 800 of that lite multi turboprop (KingAirs & such).

No you don't, because there is no such thing. You will have an ATPL issued by a specific country or supranational authority. ICAO doesn't issue licences. Almost every country in the world is a signatory to the ICAO, and of the handful of nations that are not, few (if any) issue pilots licences. If you read the cover of your licence it should tell you which country or supranational authority issued it. You can then start your search there, or look at the validation/conversion requirements of other authorities if you need to apply for such.

Unfortunately I live in a part of the world where getting on a jet is a long hard climb and depending on age sometimes unrealistically achievable. Current days you would be very lucky to get a widebody command before 55, thats if you've been flying most of your professional life !

That is true of most of the world. You only have to spend a little time reading these forums to be painfully aware of that reality. There are however areas where the lack of a large indigenous national pilot workforce makes opportunities for foreign pilots and sometimes low houred pilots possible. Southern and East Africa are quite popular (have a look in the African forum.) Opportunities also pop up in the Middle East on occasions.

So, I've had enough, and am willing to move anywhere that might have me, where I can get a visa and who will take an ICAO pilot with no Jet experience already.

That is a good philosophy. The problem is that countries tend to want to reserve training for their own nationals, and when they need to buy in skilled labour it is often significant experience they are looking for. Obviously competition for any job is going to be keen and for the few hotspots where "Low experience" is acceptable, even more so.

Many countries will only issue work visas if there is a proven demand for labour that cannot be sourced from within that country. That tends to rule out most of the developed nations other than those with relatively small indigenous skilled populations, or those that are developing quickly.

Don't put any weight on the "ICAO pilot" thing. Every pilot with a valid licence is in that club. Look at the experience you have, and look at where you can realistically sell that experience. Do those target markets operate heavier prop or jet equipment that would provide career advancement opportunities? Without knowing where you live or what authorities licence you hold it is always going to be difficult for anybody to offer you specific advice.

[climb11thousand]

Bealzebub. I thank you for your time and substantial reply. Ill respond to some points raised, for clarity.

That rules out airlines that require you to be type rated or have basic levels of on type experience. It rules out many airlines with cadet programmes. It rules out most European airlines and depending on the definition of "whatever" possibly many others as well.

Indeed it does rule out a lot. I hear and read of many many jobs the world over requiring 500 hours on type, 1000 hours total time or similar. I guess the question im asking is, where are the airlines that don't require experience on type ? I mean, for those job where do people get that INITIAL experience ?? Are they simply after ex cadets ?

No you don't, because there is no such thing. You will have an ATPL issued by a specific country or supranational authority. ICAO doesn't issue licences. Almost every country in the world is a signatory to the ICAO, and of the handful of nations that are not, few (if any) issue pilots licenses. If you read the cover of your licence it should tell you which country or supranational authority issued it. You can then start your search there, or look at the validation/conversion requirements of other authorities if you need to apply for such.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought most would understand what I meant with the term "ICAO ATPL" as it is used the in documentation & information from airlines, aviation authorities and job advertisements all over the world. It is simply an shortened or abbreviated way of saying; "Airline Transport License issued by An ICAO Member State."

What I mean is that I have an Airline Transport License issued by An ICAO Member State, though not a JAA or EASA version. It is reasonably simple (well from my research so far) to convert this license to most other ICAO member state licenses EXCEPT JAA/EASA as that is well and truly outside of my financial abilities at this time.

I'm well aware of the country that has issued my license as I have done the majority of my flying there. I have spent my entire career searching for further job opportunities and progression in this part of the world. Unfortunately it is extremely slow and limited (comparatively), hence my posting of this thread asking for advice on where I could go if I get the hell out of here.

That is true of most of the world. You only have to spend a little time reading these forums to be painfully aware of that reality. There are however areas where the lack of a large indigenous national pilot workforce makes opportunities for foreign pilots and sometimes low houred pilots possible. Southern and East Africa are quite popular (have a look in the African forum.) Opportunities also pop up in the Middle East on occasions.

Ok thats worth knowing. Thank you. I have spent a fair bit of time over the years reading this forum and others and what I do come across a lot is whining like: "I've got 600 hours on the A320 and 800 total and Emirates won't accept my experience !" and many many similar experiences. I get the vibe that once you have your CPL, frozen ATPL, MCC and a type rating you are all good for a narrow body jet. Thence a lot of bitching because jobs are limited and some can't get these jobs with these hours.
If this is not the norm in a lot of these countries then thats good to know, it was just the impression I get from reading a lot on here.

I will certainly do some serious digging in the direction of Southern and Eastern Africa as you say. Thanks

That is a good philosophy. The problem is that countries tend to want to reserve training for their own nationals, and when they need to buy in skilled labour it is often significant experience they are looking for. Obviously competition for any job is going to be keen and for the few hotspots where "Low experience" is acceptable, even more so.

Many countries will only issue work visas if there is a proven demand for labour that cannot be sourced from within that country. That tends to rule out most of the developed nations other than those with relatively small indigenous skilled populations, or those that are developing quickly.

That sounds reasonable. Question is, where are these countries and any specific operators ?

Don't put any weight on the "ICAO pilot" thing. Every pilot with a valid licence is in that club. Look at the experience you have, and look at where you can realistically sell that experience. Do those target markets operate heavier prop or jet equipment that would provide career advancement opportunities? Without knowing where you live or what authorities licence you hold it is always going to be difficult for anybody to offer you specific advice.

Yes, this is basically what I am trying to do, find out where I can go with my experience that may offer some progression or advancement.

I hold a New Zealand issued ATPL and an Australian issued ATPL.

Thanks for your help so far.

[redsnail]

If you're currently flying a Kingair then I'd stick with that rather than chasing some pipe dream in Africa. The scene has changed a lot over there (according to mates who have friends there and who used to work there). If you're not already in the LHS, do your darndest to get yourself in that seat.

Jet jobs are a bitch to come by in Oz. Especially with QF being so shaky. A few mates are in Air New Zealand but they did have some jet experience (Falcons etc). Keep an eye out on what's happening in HK would be my advice.

[aless85]

Have you tried Copa Airlines?

You meet the Requirements...

Is it that difficult to get into Air new Zealand? I got an email from them saying they dont consider me cuz I dont have right of work there... what a shame..


Good luck

[climb11thousand]

If you're currently flying a Kingair then I'd stick with that rather than chasing some pipe dream in Africa. The scene has changed a lot over there (according to mates who have friends there and who used to work there). If you're not already in the LHS, do your darndest to get yourself in that seat.

Jet jobs are a bitch to come by in Oz. Especially with QF being so shaky. A few mates are in Air New Zealand but they did have some jet experience (Falcons etc). Keep an eye out on what's happening in HK would be my advice.

Thanks redsnail thats intersting to hear about africa. I'm in the LHS (very rare is there someone in the right) but as I'm sure you can appreciate, I'm looking to move onwards and upwards. Don't get me wrong, I love the flying, but you cant really develop any more without going airlines. I'm mainly looking for the $$ actually, and the potential to progress. There is no money in NZ GA, and its no where near the size and money as Aus. Im considering heading back over that way I think there are a few king air jobs going. Is a shame about the jet situation there, and of course it filters. There are a few guys going over to nz from the oz regionals for jet jobs with the likes of jetconnect and air nz.
Will definately keep an eye on HK, Thanks !

Have you tried Copa Airlines?

You meet the Requirements...

Is it that difficult to get into Air new Zealand? I got an email from them saying they dont consider me cuz I dont have right of work there... what a shame..

aless85
I haven't tried Copa, hadn't even heard of them, so I will be. Thanks for the heads up.
It is pretty tricky to get in to Air NZ yeah. For Air NZ jet, you need to be in their regionals or have plenty of similar or better experience. Even then you are destined for the back seat of a 777 for 10+ years maybe even more when the current hiring boom is filled and the mean age of crew is significantly reduced from what it is.
For regional, really, they're taking anyone with a pulse compared to previous times. I mean, less than 1k hours could get you into the rhs of a dash or B1900. My problem is, way back when I was in school, I didn't do so flash. I also had to resit a couple of CPL theory exams (10 years ago) so those alone pretty much rule me out. Unfortunately, Air NZ is the only regional airline in NZ so if you can't go there, you've pretty much got to head over seas, unless you want to live in poverty under NZ GA for the rest of your career...

[redsnail]

Climbt11thousand, yep, I certainly appreciate what you're going through. I ended up in the UK (for various reasons) and eventually scored a biz jet job.
I really do think Africa will just frustrate you, if you had Hawker time, I know of a few jobs in Africa but...
I'm thinking you'll be chasing some multi-pilot time now?
I'm sure you're aware it's a cyclical industry and when it takes off (excuse the pun) it really booms.

So if I were you, keep a weather eye out on Flight International. Look for who's hiring engineers and sim instructors. Usually means they're ramping up things.

[Luke SkyToddler]

If you're already in a Kingair then probably not much point going to Africa - there's plenty of work in caravans etc but most jet jobs are either really scummy terrifying 3rd world charter ops in unmaintained overloaded 50 year old 727s, or the decent jobs are all reserved for nepotistic mate's sons of the local dictator.

Surely with your hours you can't be far off at Jetstar / Virgin? Also Cathay, while the contract is now completely dreadful compared to the good ol' days, loves to hoover up the kiwis once they've got a bit of multi turbine.

Europe / UK was a great hunting ground for downunder GA pilots 10-15 years ago (when me and Redsnail were job hunting) but it's changed out of sight now, the buy-a-type-rating thing has become so entrenched and the likes of CTC have stitched up the entry level jet jobs so tight it's virtually impossible to crack now unless you're prepared to drop your trousers to the tune of £30,000 + for the rating and all the associated frills, and then work as indentured slave labour on a casual contract paying a few hundred quid a month for many years after that